most confusing platform numbering?

[jopsuk]

Is there anything quite as confusing as Stratford Regional? On the upper level, north-south, the platforms run (I've separated them into the "islands")
1 Overground
2 Overground (these are single terminus "island")
12 West Anglia Down (connected to 1 & 2 round the buffer stops of 2)

11 West Anglia Up (though in normal services Stortford trains terminate in 11 and 12)
10A Great Eastern Main line Down

10 Great Eastern Main Line, different track to 10A
9 Great Eastern Main line Up

8 Great Eastern slow lines down
6 Central Line Eastbound

5 Great Eastern slow lines up
3 Central line Westbound

3A Central Line Westbound (same track as 3, doors open both sides)

4A & 4B DLR high level, two tracks either side of one island

One the low level, things are a bit saner, from the west
13 Jubilee

14 Jubilee
15 Jubilee

16 DLR Northbound

17 DLR Northbound

There are in total 18 platform lines served by 19 platform faces. There is no platform 7. 10A and 10 are separate lines, whilst 3A and 3 are the same line with doors opening onto both. 4A and 4B are an island terminus with track either side. This is really inconsistent- 10 and 10A is especially bad. The highest numbered platform and lowest numbered platform on the upper level are connected without using the subway. Which is madness.

I appreciate that renumbering means changes to the signalling systems of not just the main line, but two Underground lines and the DLR as well. But surely making the numbering passenger friendly should be worth the cost, regardless of how financially intangible that is? I'd number the upper level platforms sequentially from the north, with only the extra Central Line platform face getting an "A" suffix, with the two faces of the DLR high level having separate numbers.

But for a change that could be done on just the main line, renumbering 8 as 7, 9 as 8, 10 as 9 and 10A as 10 would surely not to be too hard?

Does anywhere else have a numbering scheme that can quite compete with Stratford?

 

[W-on-Sea]

Probably not, at least in the UK. When I read the thread title, I thought "Stratford"...and so it was. And it really does need to be sorted out, sooner or later

At least the renumbering of the former 1 and 2 as 16 and 17 (or possibly 17 and 16) makes a bit more sense in the company of the Jubilee platforms alongside.

10A is certainly an anomaly, but as it has been used so rarely, I guess one that can be allowed to stand without causing too much confusion on a day-to-day basis.

Then there is the question of the subways...immeasurably more pleasant (and numerous) than they once were, but, still, not all of them provide direct access to every platform.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

It's not quite as crazy as Stratford, but I was always irritated by the 'back-to-front' numbering at Taunton (since the ticket office was moved from the 'Town' side).

 

[306024]

Yes totally confusing. And all down to the cost of changing it, as the signalling in Liverpool St IECC would have to be re-written. The question was asked before the Olympics, but nothing came of it. If it wasn't required then, it is unlikely to find a business case now, unless someone with money and power says I don't care what it costs.

Platform 10A is used more these days, and is particularly difficult as it cannot be accessed from the western subway which is where Jubilee line passengers come from. And while we are at it can we have a canopy on platforms 9 and 10 please. The new platforms 1 and 2 got a roof even though there is usually an Overground train available to board.

If you had a blank sheet of paper you certainly wouldn't design what is there now, but it seems we are stuck with it.

 

[Bald Rick]

Chance the GEML and 11/12 may happen with Crossrail, as the Stratford interlockings and IECC are being rejigged then.

 

[90sWereBetter]

At Lowestoft, Platform 1 was where the Yarmouth service used to terminate. When that line closed down in 1970, they removed the platform and it became a car park, but didn't bother renumbering the remaining platforms.

Not necessarily confusing, but somewhat odd that 40 years later, they still haven't renumbered.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Not as odd as Stratford maybe, but if memory serves, Oxford has Platform 1 between Platform 2 and 3 (Platform 3 being the Bicester branch bay platform) and Bedford's bay, which is the opposing platform face to Platform 1, is Platform 1a.

Also slightly odd is Haywards Heath. Whilst all the other stations on the Brighton mainline have Platform 1 as a London bound platform, at Haywards Heath it heads south (along with platform 2) and the London bound platforms are 3 and 4.

 

[scotraildriver]

Edinburgh Waverley causes a fair bit of confusion as it is numbered in a circular fashion. ie 1 and 20 are the same long through platform as are 2 and 19. 7 and 11 etc and then there are the east and West bay platforms.

 

[starrymarkb]

Yes totally confusing. And all down to the cost of changing it, as the signalling in Liverpool St IECC would have to be re-written. The question was asked before the Olympics, but nothing came of it. If it wasn't required then, it is unlikely to find a business case now, unless someone with money and power says I don't care what it costs.

Platform 10A is used more these days, and is particularly difficult as it cannot be accessed from the western subway which is where Jubilee line passengers come from. And while we are at it can we have a canopy on platforms 9 and 10 please. The new platforms 1 and 2 got a roof even though there is usually an Overground train available to board.

If you had a blank sheet of paper you certainly wouldn't design what is there now, but it seems we are stuck with it.

Could the numbers the public see not be different from those used for signalling. To use an aviation example the Gate numbers displayed inside the Terminal differ from the Stand Numbers outside. For example at Bristol gate 10 is known airside as stand 21, Similarly gate 10 at Glasgow is also known as Stand 4

 

[steamybrian]

Many years ago when touring Switzerland by rail I had to change trains at a junction station high up in the Alps. I got off the main line train and had about 10 minutes to wait for the branch line train. Looked around station to find the departure boards which indicated the train left from platform 21 which was rather puzzling considering the station only had 4 platforms. Looked outside the station in case there were other adjoining platforms but no. After several minutes I found the answer that two bay platforms next to platform 2 were numbered 21 and 22..........

 

[dvboy]

5 and 6 at Wolverhampton are an anomoly.

 

[Eagle]

The reason Stratford is the way it is is down to a number of recent changes (apart from the disuse of 7 and the introduction of 10A, which are older). Formerly the NLL trains, which went through to North Woolwich, used the low-level station on platforms 1 and 2. The DLR terminated at a single bay platform between 3 and 5, numbered 4. When the JLE opened that added three bay platforms on the low level, which were numbered with the next available numbers 13, 14 and 15. The DLR capacity improvements necessitated building a new two-track island platform on the south side of the station, which became 4A and 4B. Then in preparation from the DLR West Ham line the NLL was diverted to two new bay platforms on the north side of the high level, which kept the numbers 1 and 2. When the low level platforms eventually reopened they became 16 and 17.


As for Waverley, that used to be a whole lot more confusing before the outer through line platforms (modern 1/20 and 10) opened. Previously platform 2/19 was 1/19; the east-facing bays (modern 3 to 6) were 5, 7, 8 and 9; 7/11 was 10/11; the west-facing bays were 12 to 18 as today; and the outside platforms (modern 8 and 9) were 21 and 20, the other way round to today.

5 and 6 at Wolverhampton are an anomoly.

Similarly 4 and 5 at Northampton, and 3 at Oxford (being next to platform 1 in all three cases).

 

[Trog]

I have never been able to find platform 9 3/4 at Kings Cross either.


Also on the south end of the WCML most of the stations are numbered with platform one on the Down most side.
Except for Euston and Milton Keynes that run the other way round.

 

[NSE]

I don't find Stratford that tricky. Its well staffed and sign posted for non frequent users.

 

[Eagle]

I have never been able to find platform 9 3/4 at Kings Cross either.

When the platforms are eventually renumbered it will be in its rightful place between 9 and 10 (current 8 and 9).

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

NRE has the following permanent comment on Live Departures for Liverpool Lime St:

Merseyrail services to and from Chester, Ellesmere Port, West Kirby and New Brighton use the Lower Level Wirral platform, not Ground Floor platform 1

If you select Lime St, the Low Level departures are not listed.
The single Wirral line platform doesn't have a number at all, it is just "Low Level", unlike, say, Glasgow Central whose low level platform numbers are integrated with those upstairs.

 

[rebmcr]

On the south end of the WCML most of the stations are numbered with platform one on the Down most side.
Except for Euston and Milton Keynes that run the other way round.

I've never noticed that before. Now I realise it's the reason for me almost always turning the wrong direction to get to the concourse.

 

[Colly405]

Not necessarily too confusing, but Bristol Parkway can catch the unwary. Its platforms, in the order you stumble across them from the sole entrance, are 4, 3 and 2. Of course, it makes sense when you realise that prior to 4 opening 3 was 1 so it was a simple 1, 2. And, when the new down platform opens it will be numbered 1, logical as it is the back face of 2.

Exeter St Davids, going geographically from the east, has 2, 1, 3, 4, 5, 6.

Plymouth has 3 to 8, a remnant of 1 and 2 being closed yonks ago. Through my teens, 3 was always announced as the "west end of platform 3", despite the east end of the platform being un-numbered and unused for passenger trains. Of course, it was no longer the through platform it was originally, but had been chopped into two bays.

 

[tbtc]

Is Edinburgh Waverley really that complicated?

Unless the central booking hall (etc) are demolished to make lots more "through" platforms (and turn it into something like Birmingham New Street) its always going to be a "circular" station, so it makes sense to have it numbered like that - which means that there's bound to be a point where the high numbers come round to meet the low ones.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

NRE has the following permanent comment on Live Departures for Liverpool Lime St:

Merseyrail services to and from Chester, Ellesmere Port, West Kirby and New Brighton use the Lower Level Wirral platform, not Ground Floor platform 1

If you select Lime St, the Low Level departures are not listed....

They are on the staff version (which has the same message) and they are listed as Platform 1.

 

[rownd]

Lime Street Low Level is currently closed to passengers for refurbishment. Hence, services are not showing on public timetables, but showing on working timetables as a pass.

 

[mrcheek]

Sometimes even simple layouts can be confusing for passengers not used to rail travel.

Weston-super-Mare has two platforms. The main one, on the ticket office side, used by 75% of trains is numbered "2". The quieter platform opposite is numbered "1". Its incredible how many people simply assume that the main platform should be "1". On any busy day, you will still regularly see people running to the footbridge when they realise theyve got it wrong.

 

[Sleepy]

Colchester can be confusing - platform 3 is next to 6 also at Norwich platform 6 can be fun to find for the unwary :roll:

 

[Oscar]

Many years ago when touring Switzerland by rail I had to change trains at a junction station high up in the Alps. I got off the main line train and had about 10 minutes to wait for the branch line train. Looked around station to find the departure boards which indicated the train left from platform 21 which was rather puzzling considering the station only had 4 platforms. Looked outside the station in case there were other adjoining platforms but no. After several minutes I found the answer that two bay platforms next to platform 2 were numbered 21 and 22..........

I have seen such a layout a few times in German-speaking countries, but it must certainly be a little confusing at first. Of course in many countries a train's coaches can be also numbered (for example) 21 to 25 or 81 to 89.

 

[Gwenllian2001]

Back in the late 50s some bright spark decided that the platform numbers on the Barry line should be reversed. At Cadoxton Platform One, where everything of importance was situated; Booking Ofice; Parcels Office; Station Master's Office etc, became Platform Four.

Many an interesting conversation was subsequently overheard, such as:

Passenger: 'Which platform for Barry Island?'

Porter: 'Number One'.

Passenger: 'That'll be on Four then'.

Porter: 'That's right'.

Harold Pinter would have been proud.

 

[ainsworth74]

Edinburgh always gets me confused. Maybe it makes sense if you're used to it but for me, at any rate, as an occasional visitor I always seem to end up at the opposite end of the station that I was aiming for!

 

[The Planner]

Surprised no one has suggested renumbering all stations with platform zero's...

 

[Eagle]

Surprised no one has suggested renumbering all stations with platform zero's...

Because the point of a platform 0 is that it means all the other platforms don't need to be renumbered. I prefer it to the approach they took at Bridgend and Bedford and number the new platform 1A (which sounds like it should be part of platform 1).

 

[Liam]

Stirling is odd. Similar to Waverly in that there is a circular thing going on. First off, there is no platform 1, platforms are numbered 2-10. Platform 2 is on the booking office side, cross the bridge and you have an island containing through platforms 3 and 6 on either side, with 4 and 5 on the Northbound side (out of use) and 7 and 8 on the South. Then anonther island with 9 and 10.

 

[dcsprior]

Is Edinburgh Waverley really that complicated?

Unless the central booking hall (etc) are demolished to make lots more "through" platforms (and turn it into something like Birmingham New Street) its always going to be a "circular" station, so it makes sense to have it numbered like that - which means that there's bound to be a point where the high numbers come round to meet the low ones.

You could go for something like:

  20 becomes  1W                                1 becomes 1E
====================================================================
====================================================================
  19 becomes  2W                                2 becomes 2E


  18 becomes  3
====================                            3 becomes 15
                                                ====================

  17 becomes  4
====================
====================
  16 becomes  5                                 4 becomes 14
                                                ====================

  15 becomes  6
====================
====================
  14 becomes  7


  13 becomes  8
====================
====================
  12 becomes  9


  11 becomes  10W                                 7 becomes 10E
====================================================================
====================================================================
            10 becomes  11 (maybe split into E/W?)


====================================================================
            9 becomes  12 (maybe split into E/W?)
            8 becomes  13 (maybe split into E/W?)
====================================================================

In other words:

• Long platforms aren't split between two numbers, instead being suffixed east/west
• With the exception of the current platform 3/4 (which I don't think are used for passenger services), the platforms run nicely in order