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More woe for NX

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Trains06

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:lol: Unlucky NXECA.. Another re-nationalisation?
 
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mumrar

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And quite right too. They overstretched themselves and they're paying the price. It could be worse, they could and maybe should have had all TOCs taken off them in a previous pledge by the government. Let's hope East Coast can now go some way to restoring the tarnished image of one of the premier routes.
 

O L Leigh

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And the DfT didn't play any part in torpedoing them in the same way they did with GNER...? It sounds like the Government are busy playing politics with the rail industry rather than ensuring a public service is provided.

If NXEA don't have a franchise extension then it should just be re-tendered as normal. There are no grounds for the DfT to renationalise the Greater Anglia franchise as the franchisee has not defaulted.

O L Leigh
 

Daniel

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The only problem with a new owner of the East Anglia franchise in 2011, is that it will mean another shoddy interim livery on one of the main rail lines serving the Olympic Park..
 

johnb

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And the DfT didn't play any part in torpedoing them in the same way they did with GNER...? It sounds like the Government are busy playing politics with the rail industry rather than ensuring a public service is provided.

Eh? GNER and Sea Containers broke the terms of the franchising agreement; hence the franchising agreement was void. No 'DfT torpedoing' or 'playing politics' were involved.

If NXEA don't have a franchise extension then it should just be re-tendered as normal. There are no grounds for the DfT to renationalise the Greater Anglia franchise as the franchisee has not defaulted.

Indeed. The government needs either to re-tender NXEA as normal, or to change the law so that it can be operated by DOR. It will do one or the other of these (most likely the former, in the absence of an announced commitment to rail renationalisation).
 

Crossforth

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As much as it is good to see new liveries about for different photographs, too many is not right but NXEA won't leave till at least 2011
 

fgwrich

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According to the following article, Lord Adonis & the DfT were very cute in terminating the NXEC franchise at 23.59 last Friday. The 3 year franchise extension for NXEA required them to still be in control of East Coast on the Saturday 14th!!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/6555642/Adonis-timing-cute-over-East-Coast-takeover.html

:D

Oh Good...Think ill toast Mr Adonis tonight...Perhaps in my nice ex GNER Wineglasses...

Bye Bye National Express...Sure Enough they could re-bid for the east anglia franchises...winning it again is as likeley as GNER coming back tommorow...
 
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DaveNewcastle

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Eh? GNER and Sea Containers broke the terms of the franchising agreement; hence the franchising agreement was void. No 'DfT torpedoing' or 'playing politics' were involved.

No!
As I summarised in another thread last month (York - Leeds Electrification) about GNER's bid to retain their franchise, the company also offered 3 committments over and above the value of their bid:-
- three key additional facilites which GNER would introduce during the term of their second franchise.
First was some additional paths
Second was this short length of electrification, the "electric horseshoe"
Third was barriers at many stations

These would produce additional revenue for the company.

And yes, after GNER committed to these 3, and their bid was accepted and the franchise granted, the DfT then allocated the extra paths to others!

Fair?
You can understand why GNER went to Court over this

I'm sure you recall that the company DID go to the High Court and in my view, they had a robust case. It was the failure of Sea Containers to support those extraordinary legal costs that led to the success by DfT in awarding the extra paths to others.
"Torpedoing" is not my sort of language. But law is. And I would have defended GNER with confidence. It was the lack finance to sustain this claim in law (and the Judgement, of course) which led to their inability to continue, but the government was poorly advised in denying the company the additional paths which were crucial to their ability to deliver their aspirations and revenue.
 
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dk1

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:D

Oh Good...Think ill toast Mr Adonis tonight...Perhaps in my nice ex GNER Wineglasses...

Mate of mine gave asked the waitress if he could buy a couple once. She accepted a hefty tip then turned a blind eye.

I got one of them as a Christmas prezzy but thanks to my clumbsy ways have only ever looked at it empty in a cabinet. :roll:
 

fgwrich

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Mate of mine gave asked the waitress if he could buy a couple once. She accepted a hefty tip then turned a blind eye.

I got one of them as a Christmas prezzy but thanks to my clumbsy ways have only ever looked at it empty in a cabinet. :roll:


Supprisingly i actually brought all 8 from the Weardale railway! id check there to see if they have anything else GNER for sale...as for a while, they did have GNER Cutlery,Crokery and the wineglases for sale...

Makes Christmas Dinner guests look more closely when drinking...to drink out of crystal GREAT NORTH EASTERN RAILWAY glasses:lol:
 

WillPS

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If NXEA don't have a franchise extension then it should just be re-tendered as normal. There are no grounds for the DfT to renationalise the Greater Anglia franchise as the franchisee has not defaulted.
There'll probably by a Tory government by then. Have they not previously expressed a desire to investigate renationalisation?
 

Failed Unit

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There'll probably by a Tory government by then. Have they not previously expressed a desire to investigate renationalisation?

I doubt it considering they gave us it in the first place, but you may remember certain liebour politions saying they would renationalise pre-1997. Some may say that the major goverment rushed privatisation through to make sure it was complete before the election. Whatever nationalising will cost a lot of money the UK doesn't have.
 

johnb

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And yes, after GNER committed to these 3, and their bid was accepted and the franchise granted, the DfT then allocated the extra paths to others!

No, you're completely wrong here.

The DfT doesn't allocate paths. They're allocated by ORR, which is completely independent of the DfT. The DfT wrote to ORR ahead of the decision, in support of awarding GNER the extra paths.

However, because ORR is a legally independent body and we aren't the kind of banana republic where the government doesn't have to follow the law, once ORR had decided to award some of the paths to GC and HT, that decision was final (or at least, only reversible if GNER could show that ORR's decision was wrong in law).

This was a risk that was well understood at the time GNER signed up for its franchise: ORR has been wholly independent of SRA/DfT throughout the whole post-BR era, and does not make its decisions solely on the basis of the franchising system.

At the time of its bid, GNER could've asked DfT to make higher premium payments contingent on being granted the rights in question. It chose not to do so, and hence deliberately assumed the commercial risk of the ORR decision going against it. Changing the rules once the ORR decision had gone against GNER to reduce the premiums it needed to pay would've been grossly unfair on the other companies who bid against GNER for the franchise.

I doubt it considering they gave us it in the first place, but you may remember certain liebour politions saying they would renationalise pre-1997. Some may say that the major goverment rushed privatisation through to make sure it was complete before the election. Whatever nationalising will cost a lot of money the UK doesn't have.

The Major government unequivocally did rush privatisation through to make sure it was complete before the election - that's not even in question.

And renationalising operational control by not refranchising routes when existing franchises end wouldn't cost the UK anything. The aspects that'd cost money would be 1) terminating franchises that weren't at an end; 2) (much more so) renationalising the ROSCOs.

I'm not sure taking everything in-house would be a good idea: the public sector's hardly famed for its efficiency. But running non-intercity routes on a LOROL/London Buses basis would be sensible (ie the service is controlled by local government, which sets fares and takes revenue risks, and the private company is just a contractor tasked with doing things cheaply to contract).

(it's moot anyway: the Tories aren't ever going to miss an opportunity to throw sackfuls of cash at their mates. We're more likely to see NR carved up and privatised than any kind of sensible policy from that lot)
 
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