More TL/SN stops at New Cross Gate?

[Horizon22]

The premise is this - should there be more Thameslink and fast Southern stops at New Cross Gate?

At present, if you're coming from say Gatwick or Brighton and to get to the East London Line, you need to change at East Croydon & then Norwood Junction for an Overground service or you could continue onto Clapham Junction and then go on the South London Line Overground service.

This could be negated by stopping some services at New Cross Gate (which also has a more regular service than Norwood Junction due to the inclusion of Crystal Palace terminators). I'd suggest only Thameslink services, but there may be some merit in Southern fast services stopping there also/instead if the right connections are met

There are a lot more poplar destinations in on the ELL than there was even 5 years ago with lots of convenient connections. Whether LO would be happy with this increase in capacity that is pretty maxed out already (although its probably just a shift of changing point) is a different matter but it could cut journey times down.

It would add maybe 2-3 minutes to an inbound London Bridge train, which could cause some core conflicts, but they seem to make good time after East Croydon / Windmill Bridge Junction generally already. Would probably just be an off-peak option.

Not saying I'm massive in favour (would only be very slightly beneficial to me as a passenger) but New Cross Gate is also a fairly large destination in its own right (6.5 million entries & exits and its not a hard walk to New Cross for SE metro services), the station has capacity to be an interchange and operationally it isn't too difficult.

 

[Esker-pades]

The stops were removed when the timetable was majorly recasted for the upgraded Thameslink services. This was because the time penalty for stopping at New Cross Gate was simply too big on such a congested line.

Off-peak, there may be paths. In theory (from a brief look at the timetable), there is capacity for the Gatwick Airport to Bedford services to stop. But, I don't know what that does to their paths south of Norwood Junction.

Removing engineering and performance allowances from the timetable, especially for trains going into the Thameslink Core would be a very bad idea.

 

[Horizon22]

The stops were removed when the timetable was majorly recasted for the upgraded Thameslink services. This was because the time penalty for stopping at New Cross Gate was simply too big on such a congested line.

Off-peak, there may be paths. In theory (from a brief look at the timetable), there is capacity for the Gatwick Airport to Bedford services to stop. But, I don't know what that does to their paths south of Norwood Junction.

Removing engineering and performance allowances from the timetable, especially for trains going into the Thameslink Core would be a very bad idea.

I'm certainly not in favour of removing planning / engineering pathing allowances. It might be easier to reduce a Southern services turnaround at London Bridge, but I'd have to check up on which services they are and whether it was too tight. The problem as you say is the paths south of Norwood.

It was a while before I moved near the area, but which services were stopping at NXG before?

 

[Esker-pades]

I'm certainly not in favour of removing planning / engineering pathing allowances. It might be easier to reduce a Southern services turnaround at London Bridge, but I'd have to check up on which services they are and whether it was too tight. The problem as you say is the paths south of Norwood.

It was a while before I moved near the area, but which services were stopping at NXG before?

As far as I can tell there are no Southern services that could stop at NXG without interfering with other services.

Previously, the London Bridge to Horsham services stopped at New Cross Gate.

 

[Horizon22]

The best train with turnaround at London Bridge is a 1Kxx but that is right in front of a TL service and isn't on the Brighton Main Line anyway, negating the whole point. Otherwise its 1Pxx services with a 13 minute turnaround at London Bridge, which would requiring tweaking either side.

Thameslink services - the Gatwick to Bedford services might be able to fit in a call. As you say as it stands, its rather too tight for comfort but I certainly don't think it would require a monumental timetable shift. But there can be so many unintended consequences around Windmill Junction

 

[JonathanH]

The best train with turnaround at London Bridge is a 1Kxx but that is right in front of a TL service and isn't on the Brighton Main Line anyway, negating the whole point. Otherwise its 1Pxx services with a 13 minute turnaround at London Bridge, which would requiring tweaking either side.

Thameslink services - the Gatwick to Bedford services might be able to fit in a call. As you say as it stands, its rather too tight for comfort but I certainly don't think it would require a monumental timetable shift. But there can be so many unintended consequences around Windmill Junction

Even if they could fit one southbound, does it work northbound? Further delay into London Bridge would impact the Rainham which often impacts the Horsham starter.

Probably a case of either / or with Norwood Junction and they went for the latter.

Also, the Gatwick to Bedford is first off the timetable for any kind of engineering work at the weekend. You would expect them not to want to have to find an additional service to put the New Cross Gate stop into.