More Stops at Waterbeach

[365fenman]

The recently talked about plans of doubling the frequency of the Kings Lynn to Cambridge service and new Cambridge Science Park station got me thinking about stopping patterns at Waterbeach.

Waterbeach currently has three off peak trains per hour passing through in each direction, but only one of these (Kings Lynn to London) stops here. Whilst this is by no means a bad service, I've always thought it's a shame that other trains (particularly Cambridge to Norwich) don't stop here.

It was disappointing to see that the new extra Kings Lynn to London trains aren't planned to stop here. In addition, I see no mention of Waterbeach in plans to extend the new Cambridge to Stansted service (which stops at Whittlesford, a station with similar passenger numbers to Waterbeach) to Ely.

In recent years, some trains in the off peak, in addition to the hourly kings Lynn to London. have been introduced at waterbeach (e.g. leaving 10:20 to kings cross and arriving from Cambridge at 15:30). These are very well used by waterbeach passengers and serve as an example that an extra tph would be justified at this station which currently sees 335 000 passengers per year - see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterbeach_railway_station (greater than Newmarket and Thetford and just a smidgeon less than March).

Considering this high patronage, a new hourly train to Cambridge and Stansted/Peterborough/Norwich (highly useful destinations, especially to former) to/from Waterbeach would be by no means overkill. An extra service to Cambridge alone would likely be very well used.

Sorry to ramble on but seems like a point worth making. Interested to hear what you think.

 

[jopsuk]

Stopping an Ely-Stansted service at Waterbeach would make sense. And, if that was hourly through the day, would give Waterbeach a half-hourly service, which is plenty for now. it would give good connections at Cambridge and Ely, both hub stations.

If/when the barracks development happens and the station is rebuilt (longer platforms), then a further increase in frequency would be merited.

 

[dk1]

XC will soon be stopping at Cambridge North, I very much doubt they will be interested in Waterbeach too as it will become more of a bus service than a longer distance operator. I see no reason why the Norwich service should stop even. Best to leave it till the half-hourly Lynn's start then make it a clock face service. At the end of the day Cambridge, King Cross & Ely are the main destinations required.

 

[TheEdge]

XC will soon be stopping at Cambridge North, I very much doubt they will be interested in Waterbeach too as it will become more of a bus service than a longer distance operator. I see no reason why the Norwich service should stop even. Best to leave it till the half-hourly Lynn's start then make it a clock face service. At the end of the day Cambridge, King Cross & Ely are the main destinations required.

Agreed. In the back of the Norwich services you very rarely see any tickets for or from Waterbeach. If there was any proper demand I'm sure people would still do the journey with the fairly decent connections at Ely and Cambridge.

 

[365fenman]

XC will soon be stopping at Cambridge North, I very much doubt they will be interested in Waterbeach too as it will become more of a bus service than a longer distance operator. I see no reason why the Norwich service should stop even. Best to leave it till the half-hourly Lynn's start then make it a clock face service. At the end of the day Cambridge, King Cross & Ely are the main destinations required.

Fair enough, I agree the XC service is supposed to be fast and should only be for key stations.

Agreed. In the back of the Norwich services you very rarely see any tickets for or from Waterbeach. If there was any proper demand I'm sure people would still do the journey with the fairly decent connections at Ely and Cambridge.

Again fair enough, I've never used the Norwich service so I wouldn't know. Norwich isn't the top destination...

...But that service stops at Cambridge and Ely, which are. Therefore, whilst there wouldn't be many Norwich passengers on this service, I'm confident it would be well used by Waterbeach passengers, just for Cambridge traffic and Ely connections alone.

The GN services between Cambridge and Ely are pretty nastily overcrowded at times. I have no idea what the GA Norwich services are like (someone else I'm sure could confirm) but if they're space, it would be a handy relief to GN trains and a nice money maker for GA.

 

[dk1]

Agreed. In the back of the Norwich services you very rarely see any tickets for or from Waterbeach. If there was any proper demand I'm sure people would still do the journey with the fairly decent connections at Ely and Cambridge.

Back in the day it was the first generation units that did the honours here such as Norwich/March services but times change. The market now is very much Cambridge/London centric.

 

[chubs]

The GN services between Cambridge and Ely are pretty nastily overcrowded at times. I have no idea what the GA Norwich services are like (someone else I'm sure could confirm) but if they're space, it would be a handy relief to GN trains and a nice money maker for GA.

If a 2 car 170 shows up, then crowded.

 

[Class 170101]

Cambridge to Norwich is busy. Peak services from Cambridge to Ely are generally very busy in the evening peak.

I didn't think XC were stopping at the Science Park.

 

[TheEdge]

The GN services between Cambridge and Ely are pretty nastily overcrowded at times. I have no idea what the GA Norwich services are like (someone else I'm sure could confirm) but if they're space, it would be a handy relief to GN trains and a nice money maker for GA.

And so are the AGA ones. The peak services in both directions are full between Ely and Cambridge. The 1712 departure from Norwich is known to be one guards just cannot physically go through, the 1812 isn't much better and those are 3 cars. Same applies to the 1702 XC service.

 

[glbotu]

I've yet to be on a XC service north from Cambridge that hasn't been packed to the rafters. The demand between Cambridge and Ely is huge, to the point where people hopping on the first train they find results in massive overcrowding on that service (ie: a 2 car 170).

 

[evergreenadam]

No extra stops at Waterbeach in the ITT and the GA Cambridge - Stansted Airport EMU shuttles are to be replaced with an extension of the Norwich - Cambridge DMU service. So no sign of any extra capacity north of the new station at Cambridge North.

 

[CockneySparrow]

No extra stops at Waterbeach in the ITT and the GA Cambridge - Stansted Airport EMU shuttles are to be replaced with an extension of the Norwich - Cambridge DMU service. So no sign of any extra capacity north of the new station at Cambridge North.

FCC have added capacity between Cambridge and Ely over the years with the Ely terminators all these I believe stop at Waterbeach

What you want is GA to have extra LST terminators at Ely rather than Cambridge, this would improve capacity and allow some Norwich 170s to be turned at Ely rather than go to Cambridge

 

[dk1]

FCC have added capacity between Cambridge and Ely over the years with the Ely terminators all these I believe stop at Waterbeach

What you want is GA to have extra LST terminators at Ely rather than Cambridge, this would improve capacity and allow some Norwich 170s to be turned at Ely rather than go to Cambridge

Not a chance. The whole point of Norwich-Cambridge is just that. Thankfully they will not only all go through to Cambridge but on to Stansted too within the next couple of years.

 

[365fenman]

No extra stops at Waterbeach in the ITT and the GA Cambridge - Stansted Airport EMU shuttles are to be replaced with an extension of the Norwich - Cambridge DMU service. So no sign of any extra capacity north of the new station at Cambridge North.

I noticed this as well. So they will replace a 4 car EMU with a 2 car DMU? Maybe they could couple two DMUs together, making four cars?

It disappoints me that this Norwich service, now extended to Stansted, will continue not to stop at Waterbeach. Especially as it stops at Whittlesford, which has 396k passengers per year compared to Waterbeach's 335k (and now getting 3tph off peak, whereas Waterbeach only gets one!)

This train will serve Cambridge, Ely and Stansted Airport, all key destinations from Waterbeach. I'm confident each train would pick up 15 going south and drop 15 north at Waterbeach throughout the off-peak. That, surely, must be worth a call.

 

[CockneySparrow]

Just one thought that's not mentioned if and when the Bramley line re opens and as planned services go to Cambridge instead of being turned at March to go to Peterborough they might stop at Waterbeach

 

[dk1]

I noticed this as well. So they will replace a 4 car EMU with a 2 car DMU? Maybe they could couple two DMUs together, making four cars?.

Norwich-Cambridge 170s are almost all booked for 3-car units. The current AGA shuttle to Stansted is only 4-cars because their are no smaller EMUs in the fleet. On most a 153 would suffice with seats to spare! With more through regional destinations to the Airport, this will enhance the route no end & has been long wished for. Norwich crews would have started training back in 2012 but as NX lost the franchise it was put on hold.

 

[chubs]

Not a chance. The whole point of Norwich-Cambridge is just that. Thankfully they will not only all go through to Cambridge but on to Stansted too within the next couple of years.

Surely you need more DMU's for that to happen though?

It will certainly be welcome, although Ely isnt a bad connection between Norwich & Stansted direct is much nicer.

 

[dk1]

Surely you need more DMU's for that to happen though?

It will certainly be welcome, although Ely isnt a bad connection between Norwich & Stansted direct is much nicer.

Definitely. Must be plans in the offing. I'm hoping for some SR 170s after electrification but this darned Tweedbank Borders route is proving far too succesful

More DMUs are also required as the DfT has specified 4 daily Lowestoft-Liverpool St services across the East Suffolk.

 

[365fenman]

Just one thought that's not mentioned if and when the Bramley line re opens and as planned services go to Cambridge instead of being turned at March to go to Peterborough they might stop at Waterbeach

Would definitely be welcome. More trains to Cambrige alone would be a good thing!

Norwich-Cambridge 170s are almost all booked for 3-car units. The current AGA shuttle to Stansted is only 4-cars because their are no smaller EMUs in the fleet. On most a 153 would suffice with seats to spare! With more through regional destinations to the Airport, this will enhance the route no end & has been long wished for. Norwich crews would have started training back in 2012 but as NX lost the franchise it was put on hold.

How about this for a long shot? Electrify Ely-Norwich. Looks like in a few years there'll be plenty of 317s knocking about (if not already), then you have a four car through train from Ely to Stansted.

 

[CockneySparrow]

Would definitely be welcome. More trains to Cambrige alone would be a good thing!

How about this for a long shot? Electrify Ely-Norwich. Looks like in a few years there'll be plenty of 317s knocking about (if not already), then you have a four car through train from Ely to Stansted.

Would have thought the 317s would have reached the end of life by then, besides can every station take 4 car trains on that line

 

[365fenman]

besides can every station take 4 car trains on that line

Waterbeach can

 

[TheEdge]

...besides can every station take 4 car trains on that line

dk1 can probably help with the gaps but my guesses.

Wymondham; down probably could, up no.
Spooner Row; Hahahah, no.
Attleborough; up yes, down probably quite tight.
Eccles Road; Probably not.
Harling Road; Probably yes.
Thetford; Yes, both ways
Brandon; Possibly but tight.

Lakenheath and Shippea are irrelevant!

 

[dk1]

dk1 can probably help with the gaps but my guesses.

Wymondham; down probably could, up no.
Spooner Row; Hahahah, no.
Attleborough; up yes, down probably quite tight.
Eccles Road; Probably not.
Harling Road; Probably yes.
Thetford; Yes, both ways
Brandon; Possibly but tight.

Lakenheath and Shippea are irrelevant!

Sounds about right mate. I have done Brandon with a 3-car 170 & a 153 for football crowds. The lovely conductor i was blessed with for this weird concoction thanked me for running the 170 off the platform (first passenger doors still on) which was the only way the rear door of the Scud fitted on in up platform. Come to think of it, Down road im sure we locked my now leading Scud OOU so i could run by wherever with no issues.