More Preston tram nonsense

[vectra33]

Today the people dreaming of Preston trams have released yet another press release,this time showing what the first tram station will look like,

http://www.lep.co.uk/news/lep-business/back_to_the_future_for_city_s_tram_network_1_3515147



dave

 

[valenta]

Someone in the press has got a bit of an imaignation on them, is this project still in the "thinking up" stage, or is their definite plans?

 

[WatcherZero]

Its in the 'should have been completed by last Christmas but not even put spade to ground yet' stage.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Today the people dreaming of Preston trams have released yet another press release,this time showing what the first tram station will look like,

http://www.lep.co.uk/news/lep-business/back_to_the_future_for_city_s_tram_network_1_3515147



dave

I think that the comments posted under the article from people who live in the Preston area speak volumes!!

 

[umontu]

Its in the 'should have been completed by last Christmas but not even put spade to ground yet' stage.

Seems like it's been on the press release stage since it began.

 

[PR1Berske]

This is complete nonsense. Someone is getting paid daft amounts to spew out this fanciful idiocy.

We're too small a town, with too little money, to afford this hair-brained scheme.

 

[BestWestern]

It amazes me that anybody would still be considering building yet another silly-money tramway right now :roll:

These things have sprung up like molehills on a lawn over the past few years, with every town wanting one, partly due to the misguided idea that a tramway equals prosperity, and partly due to plain old vanity. Sadly, they're wrong. A tramway does, in fact, equal massive and largely unjustified cost, and years of debt before even reaching the break-even point. It's widely accepted that trolleybuses will do the job just as well, with much lower cost. Failing that, there's always a guided busway.

Let's hope Preston sees some sense!

 

[exile]

Have guided busways been successful in getting people out of cars? And are there any trolleybus systems in the UK? If no, then it can hardly be "widely accepted" that they will do the job as well.

 

[Tom B]

And when they *do* get given a metric sh*tload of cash to play with, they monumentally screw it up - c.f. Edinburgh.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

It amazes me that anybody would still be considering building yet another silly-money tramway right now :roll:

Let's hope Preston sees some sense!

Someone seems to know the right strings to pull, publicity wise, as this project made it onto the BBC North-West evening news last night, with graphics.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

This is complete nonsense. Someone is getting paid daft amounts to spew out this fanciful idiocy. We're too small a town, with too little money, to afford this hare-brained scheme.

Every so often, another thread appears on this forum about Preston and tramway proposals, has much debate, then goes "cold". This is just another resurrection of the same matter.

 

[snail]

It also got a write up on BBC online Lancashire news

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-14322070

Same old press release stuff with the dodgy rendering. I'm not quite sure how £9M from the Regional Growth Fund is going to kick off enough private money to fund an entire network when you think of how much public cash is being spent in Edinburgh, Nottingham and Manchester.

Still, it may be enough to give them a real train, errm, tram set to play with for a little while until they add Preston to their failures in Sheffield and Blackpool.

 

[robertclark125]

It makes me wonder as well, will they approach Rotala and Stagecoach? And Rotala Preston Bus are reducing the park and ride service (it's going out to tender), they've a vision for growth in Preston. How does this affect it, if the trams do go ahead?

 

[Drsatan]

If in the highly unlikely event Tram Power Consortium actually receive money to carry out feasibility studies and so on the DfT will decide that the citizens of Preston don't need a tramway and instead they want a guided busway.

This is rather like what happened during planning for the Gosport tram: millions of pounds was thrown at the project which was cancelled despite support from the relevant local and county councils. Then the DfT decreed that a guided busway is what the citizens of Gosport are worthy of!

 

[robertclark125]

If in the highly unlikely event Tram Power Consortium actually receive money to carry out feasibility studies and so on the DfT will decide that the citizens of Preston don't need a tramway and instead they want a guided busway.

This is rather like what happened during planning for the Gosport tram: millions of pounds was thrown at the project which was cancelled despite support from the relevant local and county councils. Then the DfT decreed that a guided busway is what the citizens of Gosport are worthy of!

Perhaps the DfT will ask every person in Preston what they want. Then again, I'm also expecting pigs to fly in the sky.........

 

[WatcherZero]

Have Network Rail agreed to lease the track to them now or are they still refusing?

 

[exile]

It's odd how passionate people can be about the merits of one form of transport over another! I suspect the general public is quite happy to get from A to B reliably and cheaply whatever the shape of the box they travel in.
Each form of transport - from walking to cars to buses to trains to plains, has its strengths and weaknesses and is appropriate in different situations. I wouldn't walk to New York or fly to my local supermarket. I would like to have a choice where possible, which is why I'm mystified by the strength of feeling AGAINST certain transport modes being constructed.

 

[snail]

The negativity against this particular proposal seems well founded. Trampower have been around generating publicity for years, promoting their low cost trams and 'revolutionary' track. All they have managed in practice are a few Km of track in Sheffield and a prototype tram that caught fire in Blackpool because of serious design flaws.

They claim that they will be able to build 4 lines in Preston at no cost to the public purse, and are still claiming they can have a line up and running in 12 months! So far they have planning permission for a short demonstration line, some drawings and lots of promises. It's not surprising people are sceptical.

I think a tram line from the railway station to the M6 J31 would be a good thing, as would connecting the station to the rest of the city centre. But I strongly doubt that Trampower are the people to build it.

 

[BestWestern]

Have guided busways been successful in getting people out of cars? And are there any trolleybus systems in the UK? If no, then it can hardly be "widely accepted" that they will do the job as well.

It is "widely accepted", hence why trolleybuses are everywhere in Europe. It's also why trollies replaced tram systems in the UK many years ago. With the opening of the Metrolink, trams regained popularity because they were seen as a prestige feature, something which indicated prosperity. At a time when most people's idea of a tram was something you might find either in a museum or trundling along the prom at Blackpool, they were futuristic and exciting. That doesn't mean they are automatically going to be a good idea no matter where you run them.

Where there is a genuine need for a direct, fast link to cover a reasonable distance over a set route, they work. However, in far too many places they are simply vanity projects, with every town wanting one because everywhere else has one too. They cost silly money, they are less flexible than their cheaper alternatives, and the recent debacle in Edinburgh should be enough to put any sensible organisation right off. But, sadly, it seems not!

 

[snail]

It is "widely accepted", hence why trolleybuses are everywhere in Europe. It's also why trollies replaced tram systems in the UK many years ago.

So, if they are so great, where are they now in this country and why is no one developing new systems?

 

[yorksrob]

I would like to have a choice where possible, which is why I'm mystified by the strength of feeling AGAINST certain transport modes being constructed.

A good illustration of why I'm against the Leigh guided busway. I already have the choice of getting off the train and wandering around for a bus stop. What I would like is to be able to change to a fast direct train at Victoria. Yet because that project was envisaged as a cheap option, Leigh will remain off the rail network.

 

[deltabravo]

So, if they are so great, where are they now in this country and why is no one developing new systems?

http://www.ngtmetro.com/

 

[snail]

Oh dear. That website looks scarily similar to the Trampower one.

 

[deltabravo]

Oh dear. That website looks scarily similar to the Trampower one.

Well the proposals are far more realistic than the Preston Tram, lets face it.

 

[snail]

Well the proposals are far more realistic than the Preston Tram, lets face it.

Let's hope so!

 

[WatcherZero]

Oh dear. That website looks scarily similar to the Trampower one.

The websites built by WYPTE

 

[exile]

Trolleybuses everywhere in Europe? I'm reasonably well travelled but have never seen a trolleybus whilst I've been on trams in a dozen cities.

 

[deltabravo]

Trolleybuses everywhere in Europe? I'm reasonably well travelled but have never seen a trolleybus whilst I've been on trams in a dozen cities.

Well, there are probably more trams than Trolleybuses in Europe, but Trolleybuses are not a dead duck. Go to Salzburg, and the main public transport method is the Trolleybus. Milan, Rome, Lyon all have extensive Trolleybus networks.

 

[exile]

In which case I must have seen them, having been to Salzburg! I stand corrected.

Anyway, I suspect the mid 20th century transport scene will see both trams (on busier routes) and trolleybuses operating in UK cities with perhaps hydrogen-powered buses filling the gaps.

 

[185]

As much as the proposals are ridiculous by a group who've not costed or thought them out, there is a genuine need for something to be done to persuade drivers not to use the car to get into gridlocked Preston City Centre.

I would welcome a route from J31 into the city, and following the old Network Rail alignment under the east end is sensible.

 

[boing_uk]

From a purely engineering POV, the LR55 rail does seem promising, which is why I am surprised that none was used for the recent Blackpool system upgrade.

Tram systems in this country are hampered by the legislative requirement for the tram system owners to divert utilities at cost to the scheme when using the "traditional" construction method, which I beleive is not the case on the continent. The LR55 seems to avoid this by utilising the existing pavement structure.

While this is all very well, it relies on the existing pavement having enough residual life in them in the first place, which for the majority of roads isn't the case. On the flip side, resurfacing would be much easier, because there isnt a slab to deal with.

Im on the fence with this one. While I think Preston would benefit from a light rail system, it would only be of benefit in a more expanded Lancashire-wide light rail system. I think rather than pushing for a completely new system in Preston, perhaps they should use an existing system to expand upon, to properly prove the concept.