More coaches would be nice

[jopsuk]

Aye, the only properly "sensible" home for the 508s would be, after an expensive heavy overhaul to bring them to standard, Merseyrail, where the rest of the class resides.

 

[Eagle]

Which isn't going to happen of course, being as the in-use 508s are not far off life expiry.

 

[RichmondCommu]

Yes - take the ex SouthEastern 508s as an example, left to rot

Is there any scope for strengthening Mersey Rail services?

 

[colchesterken]

Hi Richmond

I need your help here to save my reputation

Who has a young lady of about 35 as prime minister, coul;d it be norway or denmark
getting my countries mixed up

 

[Eagle]

Denmark. Helle Thorning-Schmidt. She's Neil Kinnock's daughter-in-law.

 

[Holly]

Hello, newbie so please be gentle! Browsing through a mid 80's article in Traction Magazine, im reminded how many loco hauled coaches there used to be on the services i used as a kid, usually 6-10 as a rule. Since taking up my 'Railway Enthusiast' role again & visiting the NRM, East Lancs to name a few I've endured being squashed on a Cross Country 4-car Voyager, & being squashed even further on a 2-car 158 from Piccadilly to Sheffield. I know its a Pandora's box but my question is......Does this fault lie with The Privatised Train Companies or British Rail's rundown stock at the time of Privatisation? (thus leaving the newly formed companies a mountain to climb!?) hmmmm :roll:

It is only one of many factors, but an important factor is motivation.

If your intent is to provide the public with a service you try to provide at least as many coaches as will deal with expected maximum demand and vary lengths of formations whenever operationally convenient. Of course you can't achieve this and have to make compromises, such as running largely empty stock around.
If your intent is to operate at a profit you try to provide coaches that exactly meet average expected demand. Of course you can't achieve this and have to make various compromises such as spare capacity to deal with projected failure and maintenance rates.

It all comes down to what society is willing to pay for and political influence. Motivation is only one of many factors, but it is a factor.

 

[tbtc]

But they're not exactly versatile units. They were designed for shortish services and are 3rd rail only.

So where exactly would you have deployed them?

Bearing in mind offering 2 or 3 around doesn't work as you need drivers who are cleared to drive them.

Like it or not the TOCs have been progressively standardising the units they use which is far more cost efficient than having to train drivers to drive a certain unit once in a blue moon.

Its not ideal, but you could use them on the Lymington branch... Stagecoach use a 158 on this electrified branch, yet only have single 153s for Derby - Stoke - Crewe. In terms of the "least bad" situation, I'd spend the money training SWT drivers to work 508s to give additional capacity further north.

 

[scarby]

Hello, newbie so please be gentle! Browsing through a mid 80's article in Traction Magazine, im reminded how many loco hauled coaches there used to be on the services i used as a kid, usually 6-10 as a rule. Since taking up my 'Railway Enthusiast' role again & visiting the NRM, East Lancs to name a few ive endured being squashed on a Cross Country 4-car Voyager, & being squashed even further on a 2-car 158 from Piccadilly to Sheffield :cry:

I know its a Pandorra's box but my question is......Does this fault lie with The Privatised Train Companies or British Rail's rundown stock at the time of Privatisation? (thus leaving the newly formed companies a mountain to climb!?) hmmmm :roll:

Growing up in North Yorkshire in the 1970s, if a service was likely to be more busy they just coupled 1, 2 or even 3 DMUs together to form the train.

In 2011:

- if it's the 6.30 out of Scarborough to Manchester, which runs into peak commuter times at York and Leeds, it's a 3 car class 185 (I took this a few weeks back and it was standing Leeds-Manchester).

- if it's the last train of the night out of Scarborough on a freezing Tuesday in February, with 5 passengers, it's a 3 car class 185.

- if it's a blazing August Sunday afternoon out of Scarborough to York, with dozens of holiday travellers with lots of luggage, it's a 3 car class 185.

Which is of course, because EVERY service between Scarborough-York and beyond, regardless of the day or time of year, is a 3-car class 185.

Call me old-fashioned, but I think that's an absolutely crackers way to run a service.

 

[IanXC]

it seems that (at least for leasing costs) LHCS is cheaper to rent than an equivelent length DMU. However Im not sure how this would be for the actual buying costs, but i imagine if LHCS was being snapped up at every oppotunity then ROSCOS would consider aquiring new stock (or even commisioning some form of BR/Modern combination stock.


Then again, Im forgetting we have a private system run by the DfT

While the leasing costs might be lower, the track access costs of RA7 locomotives and stock versus DMUs of eg RA2 will be much, much higher.

Use Cl60s to displace the Cl66/67s freight workings.

Attach an AAR equipped DVT/stripped DBSO with a generator like the one that Chiltern just finished to a Cl66, fit through ETS cabling to the Cl66 (should fitting the Cl66 with an ETH tap be too expensive), and then use them to displace Cl67s/57s that are on the sleepers and drags to fit them to passenger workings.

Or just fit the DVT/DBSO/generic cab-fitted four wheel wagon with the generator to the Cl60......

Not necessarily a deal breaker but 66s are currently limited to 75mph.

I am thinking whats going to happen to the 9 trains ( Cl 317 )being given bach by the
Dutch when they take over our services!

I don't think its decided but the rumour seems to be that they'll be used on the new North West electrified routes pending release and refurbishment of the 319s.

 

[A0]

Its not ideal, but you could use them on the Lymington branch... Stagecoach use a 158 on this electrified branch, yet only have single 153s for Derby - Stoke - Crewe. In terms of the "least bad" situation, I'd spend the money training SWT drivers to work 508s to give additional capacity further north.

That idea was floated when the slammers were withdrawn because it was totally impractical. Not a bit inconvenient or 'least bad' but completely senseless.

Some additional Desiros are the only way Lymington is going back to electric operation as it won't cause operational problems.

And I doubt SWT would be willing to relinquish any 158/9s given their current utilisation on London - Exeter services. The freed-up unit would probably be used to strengthen one of their services.

Derby-Stoke-Crewe is NOT a heavily utilised service most of the time - the times I've used it a 153 has been sufficient.

 

[ElectronicaL33]

Growing up in North Yorkshire in the 1970s, if a service was likely to be more busy they just coupled 1, 2 or even 3 DMUs together to form the train.

In 2011:

- if it's the 6.30 out of Scarborough to Manchester, which runs into peak commuter times at York and Leeds, it's a 3 car class 185 (I took this a few weeks back and it was standing Leeds-Manchester).

- if it's the last train of the night out of Scarborough on a freezing Tuesday in February, with 5 passengers, it's a 3 car class 185.

- if it's a blazing August Sunday afternoon out of Scarborough to York, with dozens of holiday travellers with lots of luggage, it's a 3 car class 185.

Which is of course, because EVERY service between Scarborough-York and beyond, regardless of the day or time of year, is a 3-car class 185.

Call me old-fashioned, but I think that's an absolutely crackers way to run a service.

Agreed sir, & its a shame because local tourism has to suffer? Now if a visitor to Scarborough + wife/family have a crushed journey then it doesnt start the holiday off well! Another case in point has been the Nottingham-Skegness service. I remember travelling (Jolly Fisherman special) in a rake of coridoor coaches, say 7-8, behind a couple of 20's or 3 DMU's bolted together say 8 coaches again.....seats guaranteed! In recent times (highlighted by passenger complaints to our local paper) its been a 153! Although to be fair East Midlands Trains have improved this with a HST set recently

I guess a big factor is the 'people in charge' cant nip across to the yard, (because its a supermarket now) nor can they whistle up a diesel with 6 coaches (because stock just aint around anymore) Its as flexible as the lampost outside my house