Moorgate to Farringdon

[David Sinnett]

What is to become of the track and tunnel when the branch closes? Just left to get dirty, another platform for LUL or....

 

[Mcr Warrior]

What is to become of the track and tunnel when the branch closes? Just left to get dirty, another platform for LUL or....

My understanding is that the disused trackbed will be secured from unauthorised access and cannot be disposed of for a period of five years, unless the Secretary of State so authorises.

 

[91101]

Moorgate - Farringdon will still be operational for some time yet but there will be no passenger services on it. It will be used during service disruption as a bolt hole should a unit fail to change over at Farringdon, or if the core is blocked.

Further to this, there is a train in the new timetable that runs Bedford - Farringdon in the AM peak and the same in the PM peak, that will use Moorgate to reverse.

 

[David Sinnett]

Platforms on the TL line are getting new seats. I noticed this morning that Moorgate also has new seats between platforms 4 (LUL) and 5 (FCC). Interesting to see whether any other LUL stations get them or whether FCC has money to spare.

 

[jopsuk]

Incidentally- with City getting wired up, will the redeveloped Blackfriars and London Bridge stations be designed with the far-off possibility of over-head wiring in mind? or will the southern men fight to the death to ensure the knitting never makes it across the Thames (HS1 excepted)?

 

[mackenzie_blu]

The seating you see at farringdon, was it the perch style? I know that Farringdon FCC side and platforms 4 & 5 at Blackfriars are due to get perch seating once the new timetabel comes into force. They are apart of the Thameslink Programme as far as I know so the money is from the DfT not FCC.

As for OHLE futher than City, Im guessing there is provison for the OHLE to be extended but nothing set.

 

[David Sinnett]

Forget the seating. I had a better look this morning with my eyes open. Think what led me astray is that the platform 4/5 is covered with a dust/mud/muck that is reminiscent of concrete dust and I'd not noticed those seats before and theyre the same style as is now on Bedford's platform.
Back to sleep!

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Moorgate - Farringdon will still be operational for some time yet but there will be no passenger services on it. It will be used during service disruption as a bolt hole should a unit fail to change over at Farringdon, or if the core is blocked.

:roll: But at some stage, of course, the platforms at Farringdon will be extended towards the South from an 8 car length to 12 car length, which, as they will cross the junction, will effectively permanently block the line to Moorgate; once the platform extensions have been built, I don't see how the line to Moorgate could then be used as a 'bolt hole'.

 

[Edvid]

Which is exactly why the OHLE will be extended to City Thameslink before then, allowing trains on AC to reverse there.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

According to http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/rail/pi/thameslinkrollingstock/itt/specification.pdf

2.4.3.1 Proposed Arrangements
All service trains are expected to stop at both City Thameslink and Farringdon stations in both directions. Hence the proposed arrangements are that during normal operation southbound trains will change over from AC to DC during the stop at Farringdon, while northbound trains will change over from DC to AC during the stop at City Thameslink.

If a southbound train is unable to take traction on DC but can continue on AC the train will work forward to City Thameslink where passengers will be de-trained. The train will then reverse and return north as empty stock on AC (or pick up a timetable working from Farringdon).

If a northbound train is unable to take traction on AC but can continue on DC passengers will be detrained at City Thameslink. The train will then be worked forward to Smithfield Sidings (subject to an 8-car limit) or to Farringdon to reverse via the crossover and return south as empty stock on DC (or pick up a timetable working from City Thameslink).

 

[1D53]

:roll: But at some stage, of course, the platforms at Farringdon will be extended towards the South from an 8 car length to 12 car length, which, as they will cross the junction, will effectively permanently block the line to Moorgate; once the platform extensions have been built, I don't see how the line to Moorgate could then be used as a 'bolt hole'.

They aren't planning to lengthen the platforms for some time yet, so in the short term at least there is nothing stopping them using it as a run round point.

 

[A60K]

Incidentally- with City getting wired up, will the redeveloped Blackfriars and London Bridge stations be designed with the far-off possibility of over-head wiring in mind? or will the southern men fight to the death to ensure the knitting never makes it across the Thames (HS1 excepted)?

I believe that all new infrastructure must allow for the possible (even if unlikely) extension of OHLE unless a specific exemption is given. I vaguely remember this being an issue with a preserved railway some while ago.

 

[mackenzie_blu]

They dont actually rip up the whole branch till December but do other works before then hence the March date given for the end of services.

 

[westcoaster]

anyone else seen the massive ( i mean massive) countdown clock at moorgate near the buffers on platform 6.

 

[Edvid]

Feels like King's Cross Thameslink all over again, it's hard to believe the last passenger service is only 7 days away now.

If I'm not there on Monday I definitely should be on Tuesday.

 

[mackenzie_blu]

anyone else seen the massive ( i mean massive) countdown clock at moorgate near the buffers on platform 6.

Ive seen the image of what it looks like. Wonder if it really is that bad in person?

Then again they really are trying every trick in the book to get this point across to people about these changes and that cannot be a bad thing.

Im going to be around on friday for sure. Will be a sad day in a few ways. Glad I can say Ive worked there tho.

 

[MCR247]

Ive seen the image of what it looks like. Wonder if it really is that bad in person?

Then again they really are trying every trick in the book to get this point across to people about these changes and that cannot be a bad thing.

Im going to be around on friday for sure. Will be a sad day in a few ways. Glad I can say Ive worked there tho.

Does anyone have a picture for those like me who dont live in/close to London?

 

[CCF23]

I was at Moorgate yesterday evening (after seeing the Virgin Loco hauled service at Euston) and i took some pictures of the trains and the hideous countdown board.

 

[me123]

Out of curiosity, if it's five minutes late, what are they going to do?

 

[glynn80]

Does anyone know what closure procedure is happening for this line? Will it have to satisfy the conditions in the Railways Act 2005 or does this section of track not count as a closure as there is an LUL service that covers the same stations?

I would argue that the LUL service isn't a direct replacement as this requires passengers to change trains if they are travelling further north than Farringdon.

 

[jon0844]

Isn't that the same countdown clock they had at King's Cross Thameslink?

Where will it go next? A countdown to the completion of the whole project?!

 

[NSEFAN]

I would argue that the LUL service isn't a direct replacement as this requires passengers to change trains if they are travelling further north than Farringdon.

Having travelled on both the FCC and LUL services between Farringdon and Moorgate, the LUL services were not only more frequent, but also seemed to be faster. Whilst it isn't a direct replacement, it will probably more than sufficient for most people.

The only problem I can see is if someone is carrying heavy luggage, but then given the times that the FCC services run, this doesn't seem very likely.

 

[mackenzie_blu]

Does anyone know what closure procedure is happening for this line? Will it have to satisfy the conditions in the Railways Act 2005 or does this section of track not count as a closure as there is an LUL service that covers the same stations?

I would argue that the LUL service isn't a direct replacement as this requires passengers to change trains if they are travelling further north than Farringdon.

Id disagree. Its a peak only service that is provided by the Thameslink route. The Tube runs the best service to get to the station and will continue to at far greater frequency than the Thameslink ever has. By 2012 you'll have both Farringdon and St Pancras International to change at and both will provide step free access for anyone.

Thats got to be better than keeping the thing open and letting the overcrowding continue.

 

[robvulpes]

Does anyone know what closure procedure is happening for this line? Will it have to satisfy the conditions in the Railways Act 2005 or does this section of track not count as a closure as there is an LUL service that covers the same stations?

All done:-

http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/rail/pi/tl2000/hameslink2000closuredecision.pdf

Robert

 

[A0]

Does anyone know what closure procedure is happening for this line? Will it have to satisfy the conditions in the Railways Act 2005 or does this section of track not count as a closure as there is an LUL service that covers the same stations?

I would argue that the LUL service isn't a direct replacement as this requires passengers to change trains if they are travelling further north than Farringdon.

I suspect the same arguments were used in 1975 / 76 when the GN services were diverted away from the widened lines and onto the GN&C route. Not sure anybody now feels it's a hardship to get on the tube at Kings Cross to get to Farringdon / Barbican.

 

[jas_sl]

Can anyone enlighten me how they are extending the *northbound* platform? I know the southbound platform is cutting over the rails to Moorgate and they have said this was because the slope at the north end is too steep.

But I can't see how they can extend the northbound platform southwards as well as there's a chuffing great brick bridge in the way - are they reconstructing this too or are they really just going to extend northwards? If the latter the statement about the gradient being too steep would be nonesense!

 

[Edvid]

The northbound (down) platform is also being extended southwards. The bridge you speak of supports Cowcross Street and will indeed be rebuilt in order to accommodate the platform extensions.

 

[Tom C]

Feels like King's Cross Thameslink all over again, it's hard to believe the last passenger service is only 7 days away now.

If I'm not there on Monday I definitely should be on Tuesday.

Apprently the last ECS from ZMG to CRI will now be turned into a passenger run.

Its due to run at 19:54 although its not exactly concrete.

Will try to find out a bit more about this but will be on the last train whatever!

 

[jas_sl]

The northbound (down) platform is also being extended southwards. The bridge you speak of supports Cowcross Street and will indeed be rebuilt in order to accommodate the platform extensions.

Thanks for the info - that makes sense as I hadn't heard the bridge supporting Cowcross Street was being rebuilt.

Another question - couldn't they have dropped the level of the trackbed in order to prevent any northbound platform extension from dropping away? Looking at the photo at the bottom of this page:

http://www.subbrit.org.uk/sb-sites/stations/f/farringdon/index.shtml

during the electrification of Farringdon station, it doesn't seem impossible they could have extended northwards and not had to cut the branch off by digging downwards. Maybe it was considered too disruptive.

 

[mackenzie_blu]

Some images I took today of Moorgate