Moorgate- Farringdon Thameslink

[Weary Walker]

Being consistent with many other closed lines why not convert it into a bridleway?

Yes it is underground - but that can be given a positive spin: not subject to vagaries
of the British weather.

Bridleways are open to cyclists - another win.

Further, who can claim it is a sillier option than some of the suggestions from DfT & TOCs?

 

[b0b]

I guess I presumed they were going to use the space at Farringdon where the moorgate line branched off to build a bigger and better station on?

When is the 12 car southbound platform due to be built at Farringdon?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the DLR faces directly into the side of the Waterloo & City platforms.

It does; look here and zoom in closely: http://carto.metro.free.fr/cartes/metro-tram-london/

But equally it does look as if it would be possible to curve round to allow the DLR to access the Waterloo and City Line considering how sharp some of the curves on the DLR are.

 

[mr_jrt]

A proposal I cam eup with elsewhere ages ago might be on topic here.

Basically, the area around Farringdon used to have a lot more infrastructure than it does now:
http://basilicafields.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/farringdon_map_med.jpg

My proposal is for the office building on the site of Farringdon St. to be demolished, and replaced with a new one allowing rail access beneath it. These lines would then run through to Smithfield sidings and on to City Thameslink.

This makes the existing Thameslink platforms at Farringdon redundant, so they are converted back as-was for the Moorgate branch. The approaches are altered so that eastbound Met trains use platform 1, eastbound Circles use platform 2, westbound circles use platform 3, and westbound Mets use platform 4. Met services skip Barbican, with the Circles using the centre island platform. The bays at Moorgate are knocked through eastwards and connected to the running lines, permitting non-conflicting termination from either direction.

Ideally, you'd go a step further and knock through the old bay at Liverpool St and add another line and platform south of it so that Moorgate could be skipped by Met trains as well, making the section a tad more useful.

 

[jopsuk]

I guess I presumed they were going to use the space at Farringdon where the moorgate line branched off to build a bigger and better station on?

When is the 12 car southbound platform due to be built at Farringdon?

Now. One of the things that's been closing the core of Thameslink at weekends is the platform building.

 

[LE Greys]

It does; look here and zoom in closely: http://carto.metro.free.fr/cartes/metro-tram-london/

But equally it does look as if it would be possible to curve round to allow the DLR to access the Waterloo and City Line considering how sharp some of the curves on the DLR are.

Now that's an interesting map. I'll have to examine it properly when I have more time.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Now that's an interesting map. I'll have to examine it properly when I have more time.

Explore the whole site while you're in there.... that's not the only map...

 

[Anonywave]

What about using it as a branch from Blackfriars and city thameslink? it was a triangular junction at one time.

However, the core thameslink route south of there will probably have enough trains going through to much further destinations than moorgate once the thameslink projects finished.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Now. One of the things that's been closing the core of Thameslink at weekends is the platform building.

Is the new extension actually under construction yet? If so do you know of any website hosting photos of the construction?

 

[Old Timer]

The logic of the third rail and OHL joint between City Thameslink and Farringdon is as follows.

The changeover will take place at City Thameslink, thus if a northbound train fails to configure going north, it can run to Farringdon and then reverse there and return as a southbound service.

If a southbound service cannot configure at City Thameslink then it can reverse northbound and work back north.

City Thameslink also has the advantgae of only being about 5 to 7 minutes from Blackfriars making it easy for through passengers to continue without having to go round the wrekin on the Circle line.

SET men will learn as far as Farringdon as it will allow them to terminate there and start back south in the event of a problem at Blackfriars or Smithfield sidings being full I am told.

 

[swt_passenger]

The logic of the third rail and OHL joint between City Thameslink and Farringdon is as follows.

The changeover will take place at City Thameslink, thus if a northbound train fails to configure going north, it can run to Farringdon and then reverse there and return as a southbound service.

If a southbound service cannot configure at City Thameslink then it can reverse northbound and work back north.

The published proposals, however, are that southbound trains will normally changeover at Farringdon. If it fails they will then stay on AC until City T/L and then reverse north.

Ignoring the Smithfield sidings for a moment, the basic procedure is the same in either direction, two stations (inclusive) of dual electrification, with changeover normally taking place at the first station passed through.

This is from the Network Change notice explaining the current temporary arrangements, but the procedures are also explained in the Thameslink rolling stock spec.

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse%20documents/network%20code/network%20change/completed%20proposals/thameslink/ncg12009tlp001%20access%20to%20smithfield%20sidings/ncg12009tlp001-%20smithfield%20sidings%20ncn.pdf

 

[DavyCrocket]

Someone has mentioned stabling sidings and that is indeed what will happen to the branch (or at least part of it) in the future.

 

[Aictos]

The logic of the third rail and OHL joint between City Thameslink and Farringdon is as follows.

The changeover will take place at City Thameslink, thus if a northbound train fails to configure going north, it can run to Farringdon and then reverse there and return as a southbound service.

If a southbound service cannot configure at City Thameslink then it can reverse northbound and work back north.

City Thameslink also has the advantgae of only being about 5 to 7 minutes from Blackfriars making it easy for through passengers to continue without having to go round the wrekin on the Circle line.

SET men will learn as far as Farringdon as it will allow them to terminate there and start back south in the event of a problem at Blackfriars or Smithfield sidings being full I am told.

One small thing though OT, SET drivers are already cleared though Farringdon straight though to Bedford - This I am aware of as I took a trip on a 377/5 when first introduced and had a SET driver from Bedford to St Pancras.

I'm also sure that the Sevenoaks to Kentish Town services are also driven by SET drivers as well.

I don't know exactly how much of the Midland they are cleared on but they certainly are cleared to Bedford.

 

[Furrball]

The sidings will not be usable by the proposed eventual fleet of 12 –car fixed formation trains.

So I wonder what the recovery plans are for these then?

 

[Mike395]

I don't know exactly how much of the Midland they are cleared on but they certainly are cleared to Bedford.

Wouldnt have thought they'll sign north of Bedford, as it isnt electrified!

 

[swt_passenger]

So I wonder what the recovery plans are for these then?

Going northbound, kick out pax at City T/L, continue to Farringdon on DC, reverse over trailing crossover in Snow Hill tunnel and return south.

Going southbound, kick out pax at Farringdon, continue to City T/L on AC, reverse over the same trailing crossover and return north.

 

[ole man]

I agree its a waste, but there isn't that much they can do. Maybe extend the Circle line sidings a bit if theres room, or extend the underground tracks so the bay platforms at Moorgate run through the old TL platforms at Barbican. Again don't know the feasability of this, just thoughts. Also Maybe a single track off the TL into a siding incase of failure to change power at Farringdon. However they did extend electrification to City Thameslink on OHL should a train fail to swap.
I can't think of much else that the area could be used for. Mind you there isn't that much left to 'rot' anyway all the OHL equipment has been taken down and I believe that tracks taken up.

Mind you if Kings Cross Thameslink is anything to go by, it'll just be left to rot as you said.

you are correct in the fact that the ole has been taken down, but the track remains at the farringdon end of the tunnels,i was there last week and have taken some photo's which i will put up.There is now a huge concrete ramp and steps right on the tunnel fac e allowing vehicle access to the new farringdon staton this can be accessed from charterhouse street.
Nothing will be done with the tunnels,they will be blocked when construction of farringdon is complete,although a rumour i heard was to extend the LU sidings which are next to the tunnels seperated only by a fence

 

[jas_sl]

Does the old tunnel that used to form the triangle junction at Farringdon still exist? Can see in Joe Brown's atlas that the curve through Smithfields Goods closed in 1927 and I've been thru Snow Hill numerous times - but anything lurk behind those brick walls?

 

[swt_passenger]

Does the old tunnel that used to form the triangle junction at Farringdon still exist? Can see in Joe Brown's atlas that the curve through Smithfields Goods closed in 1927 and I've been thru Snow Hill numerous times - but anything lurk behind those brick walls?

Not used since 1916 due to lack of interest by the train companies of the time. Finally destroyed during rebuilding of the poultry market in the late 1950s.

 

[westcoaster]

One small thing though OT, SET drivers are already cleared though Farringdon straight though to Bedford - This I am aware of as I took a trip on a 377/5 when first introduced and had a SET driver from Bedford to St Pancras.

I'm also sure that the Sevenoaks to Kentish Town services are also driven by SET drivers as well.

I don't know exactly how much of the Midland they are cleared on but they certainly are cleared to Bedford.

SET drivers sign all the way to Bedford (vic and orppy men), just as FCC drivers sign all ways to Sevenoaks (Bedford and blackfriars men).

 

[Metrailway]

you are correct in the fact that the ole has been taken down, but the track remains at the farringdon end of the tunnels,i was there last week and have taken some photo's which i will put up.There is now a huge concrete ramp and steps right on the tunnel fac e allowing vehicle access to the new farringdon staton this can be accessed from charterhouse street.
Nothing will be done with the tunnels,they will be blocked when construction of farringdon is complete,although a rumour i heard was to extend the LU sidings which are next to the tunnels seperated only by a fence

There is a LUL proposal for the use of the City Widened Lines to Moorgate for stabling. Whether it goes ahead is a different matter.

 

[ole man]

There is a slight trace of where the line from smithfield to moorgate,there is a huge cut out,and there loads of little cut out where i assume tools and maybe gangs had a brew,most of the tunnel has been rebuilt,looks strange new concrete beams next to old brick.

One intresting thing i heard is that network rail did'nt have permission to wire farringdon to city thameslink,the tunnel belongs to the city of london and they was'nt best pleased when network rail started to put up new steel on the old tunnel.

 

[jon0844]

I presume common sense prevailed given the City will benefit a great deal from the completed line, and would be the first to go ape if a train failed that blocked the whole core for hours!

Mind you, I am forgetting that common sense often flies out of the window in such situations.