Modern stock not built as DCO/ DOO compatible

[tbtc]

NOTE: Not a "Pro"/"Against" DCO/ DOO thread.

Some recent orders for stock have specified DCO/ DOO compatibility, though the trains will initially be operating on lines that are not DCO/ DOO.

Responses have been along the lines of "this is to future-proof them", which makes sense. Much cheaper/ simpler to build stock with capabilities rather than to try to modify stock years later (taking it out of service etc). Hence why most post-privatisation DC EMUs have been built with conversion to AC in mind (other than the 460s?).

So, that got me thinking - what modern stock has been introduced (or is being currently built) that doesn't have the flexibility of being used on DCO/DOO routes?

Does everything come with conversion to DCO/DOO in mind?

(to avoid argument - this isn't to talk about DCO/ DOO being introduced on more lines - this is just about which modern stock is built with the capability of running on existing DCO/DOO lines and which modern stock isn't built with that flexibility)

 

[Bletchleyite]

While DB do do DOO/DCO on locomotive hauled stock, as do SBB, I would expect the TPE LHCS will not be so fitted.

 

[swt_passenger]

What's your cut off date for modern stock? 450/444 are being discussed as not being DOO capable in another current thread. I don't think 458/5 will be, but are they modern in this context?

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Cutoff is important here. You probably couldn't DOO a Pendolino or a Voyager but are they 'modern' any more? Plenty of stock which predates them is DOO compatible.

 

[47802]

While DB do do DOO/DCO on locomotive hauled stock, as do SBB, I would expect the TPE LHCS will not be so fitted.

Well with the possible exception of the above and presumably also the new Sleeper stock, I assume that all Unit stock currently on order/being built is DCO/DOO capable?

 

[tbtc]

What's your cut off date for modern stock? 450/444 are being discussed as not being DOO capable in another current thread. I don't think 458/5 will be, but are they modern in this context?

Cutoff is important here. You probably couldn't DOO a Pendolino or a Voyager but are they 'modern' any more? Plenty of stock which predates them is DOO compatible.

To give a clear "line in the sand", let's go for anything built after the "thousand days" between the last BR unit being ordered and the first post-privatisation order.

Interesting about 450s - thanks for confirming.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Cutoff is important here. You probably couldn't DOO a Pendolino or a Voyager but are they 'modern' any more? Plenty of stock which predates them is DOO compatible.

Voyagers have pseudo-DCO - the driver releases the doors (as he does on the Pendolino), but closes them on receipt of 1-2 on the buzzer from the guard.

Why this is I have no idea, but it does mean retrofitting for DOO would probably be quite easy.

 

[swt_passenger]

A lot depends on the current DOO minimum requirements. If we assume that full Bodyside cameras and in-cab displays of a certain quality are compulsory on any new routes, then door control buttons alone don't do much to make a unit ready.

 

[Bletchleyite]

A lot depends on the current DOO minimum requirements. If we assume that full Bodyside cameras and in-cab displays of a certain quality are compulsory on any new routes, then door control buttons alone don't do much to make a unit ready.

Retrofitting a separate CCTV system is likely to be far easier than retrofitting and integrating control systems, though.

 

[ainsworth74]

Retrofitting a separate CCTV system is likely to be far easier than retrofitting and integrating control systems, though.

Is it? Where do you fit the screens in the cab? Is there room on or next to the drivers console? Is there room for the wiring and power supplies? It does not seem like it would be far easier to me.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Is it? Where do you fit the screens in the cab? Is there room on or next to the drivers console? Is there room for the wiring and power supplies? It does not seem like it would be far easier to me.

All of those apply to fitting door controls as well. While the CCTV can be wired totally separately throughout the train including between vehicles (assuming these aren't vehicles working in multiple, where I guess it gets a little more complex).

 

[ainsworth74]

All of those apply to fitting door controls as well. While the CCTV can be wired totally separately throughout the train including between vehicles (assuming these aren't vehicles working in multiple, where I guess it gets a little more complex).

So there is room in the vehicles for the extra wiring? Plus where do you put the in-cab screens?

 

[swt_passenger]

All of those apply to fitting door controls as well. While the CCTV can be wired totally separately throughout the train including between vehicles (assuming these aren't vehicles working in multiple, where I guess it gets a little more complex).

[Desiro UK]
Door controls are already there on the vertical panels to the left and right of the driver's desk, just as on 350s. No idea if they are operable or not.
It's the screens, for up to 12 cars, that are the major issue. Within a couple of years SWT 450s running singly will be limited to a very small number of specific routes.

Here's a pic showing the 350's RH door controls: https://c1.staticflickr.com/7/6008/5932246504_93345d4757_b.jpg

 

[Bletchleyite]

So there is room in the vehicles for the extra wiring?

Yes, there's tons of room in the entire saloon. An additional conduit somewhere, e.g. along the back of the luggage rack, would fit easily.

Plus where do you put the in-cab screens?

Depends on the cab layout.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Looking at someone else's pic of a 450 cab

https://www.flickr.com/photos/umdrums/1342919707

There might possibly be the room for the screens where that poster is, with the door controls being where that panel is underneath.

I wouldn't be surprised if when the 444s and 450s next have a major overhaul if they were to have all the internal stuff needed for DOO installed, even if where the bodyside cameras go is ready but blanked off

 

[plastictaffy]

Class 350's are NOT built as compatible for DOO. The question that was asked about the door panels working on the driver's desk - yes they do, as long as there's a key in.

 

[hwl]

Looking at someone else's pic of a 450 cab

https://www.flickr.com/photos/umdrums/1342919707

There might possibly be the room for the screens where that poster is, with the door controls being where that panel is underneath.

I wouldn't be surprised if when the 444s and 450s next have a major overhaul if they were to have all the internal stuff needed for DOO installed, even if where the bodyside cameras go is ready but blanked off

That is where the monitors are on electrostars.
There are enough Desiros around to make a retrofit programme worth while from development cost issue perspective, the equipment and fitting cost per unit is another matter!
The DOO camera systems are all made by 1 firm in the UK for Bombardier, Siemens or Hitachi

 

[zn1]

Cabs are becoming more and more complex, in a corridor cab how much can you cram in the space? TPWS, OTMR, DRA, GSM etc


windscreens and side windows get smaller etc...the cab used to be an airy place with a full panaroma view.

now the 377s look great outside - they are the children of the veps cigs bigs ceps etc

but then you get in the cab and cripes that is so claustrophobic..

DOO VDUs used to placed at car stops. not inside the drivers operating space.

Tech is a great, but regardless of size it still takes up space