Modern Looking Old EMUs

[CC 72100]

The 150/2 fleet were pretty smart when first completed, though they are looking worn again now, the 150/1's were done on the cheap and this is quite apparent. Neither could ever be mistaken for new trains, they're too noisy, too rattly and lack any of the basics you would expect to find on something newish, like powered internal doors or disabled access toilets etc.

I would suggest though that a well kept 158 could pass for fairly new, and indeed many would argue they are actually a better train to some units which are actually new!

Completely agree with that. I'm a little more favourable in my views of the 150/2s, I don't think they're that bad. The 150/1s are ok for short commuter services but they are often digramed onto longer workings. They, in my view, are the only FGW stock that I would describe as 'tatty'.

A well kept 158 or 159 for that matter do always look well presented. Well, at least the FGW and SWT examples that I use regularly.

 

[BestWestern]

Completely agree with that. I'm a little more favourable in my views of the 150/2s, I don't think they're that bad. The 150/1s are ok for short commuter services but they are often digramed onto longer workings. They, in my view, are the only FGW stock that I would describe as 'tatty'.

A well kept 158 or 159 for that matter do always look well presented. Well, at least the FGW and SWT examples that I use regularly.

It's a little ironic that the 150/1's are actually very possibly smarter externally, with their solid paintjobs rather than the vinyls applied to the rest of the fleet.

SWT's 158/159 fleet are a joy to travel on, or even just to look at from the outside! Arriva's are also very smart. Again, the FGW refurb was good when new but a lack of upkeep ever since has done them no favours, and they are now starting to look shabby internally. The yellow cab ends are also in a right state on some of them.

 

[David Goddard]

Assuming doubled up units at peak times (as now) for the Falkirk High service, you'd need sixteen just for that route (which would mean around twenty to cover spares etc).

That would mean turnarounds of as little as five minutes at times. Based on some observations yesterday, they would appear to have 20-25 minutes layover at each end (ie 0800 from GLQ arr EDB 0852 then dep 0915, arr GLQ 1006, dep again 1030), therefore take twn diagrams, so doubling up would need twenty sets at peak times. Having said that, if four car EMUs were used, would they still double up to eight?

Electrostar derived units on this route could offer the same level of interior to which passengers are used to, and would complement the 170s as they continue to be used on non wired routes such as to Aberdeen and Inverness.

The four ex Hull 170s going to Scotland was never going to see the buffets used to their best potential. With such a small fleet and no specific dedicated service they were bound to end up common user, with the result of fewer seats and an unused buffet. I suppose they could be used to double up peak services such as 1737 EDB-ABD, 1742 EDB-INV, 1741 GLQ-ABD, otherwise should they become spare following electrification then I would move them to XC where although a similar issue would occur, they could go on selected Nottingham-Cardiff runs.

 

[northwichcat]

I would think that you would have one hell of a job on your hands getting Scotrail to accept second hand stock in lieu of new, let alone replacing the 380s on their present services with 1980s EMUs! Sounds like a losing battle to me. Scotrail and Transport Scotland certainly wouldn't be happy about it.

I wonder if long term if Alex Salmond gets his way whether Scotrail will need to look for cheaper financial options with regards to trains. If the transport budget was tighter would they do like Valley Lines did and swap trains for cheaper to operate options? Scotland can't continue to get such a high subsidy from Westminster if it's independent and I can't see taxes from Whiskey exports making up the funding gap, as some people have suggested. After all if Scotland is independent and jacks up the price of Whiskey, the British can just export from Ireland instead.
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The four ex Hull 170s going to Scotland was never going to see the buffets used to their best potential. With such a small fleet and no specific dedicated service they were bound to end up common user, with the result of fewer seats and an unused buffet.

Ideal place for them now would seem to be TPE to use in multiple with other 170s but with clear indication to passengers of which unit has the catering facilities.

 

[tbtc]

I can't see taxes from Whiskey exports making up the funding gap, as some people have suggested. After all if Scotland is independent and jacks up the price of Whiskey, the British can just export from Ireland instead

You can certainly take whiskey from Ireland, but none from Scotland. Scotch is whisky.

As for the other ideas on this thread, maybe we shouldn't get so excited:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-18690764

Original estimates placed the cost of the Edinburgh Glasgow Improvement Programme at about £1bn.

Reduced budget

Mr Brown said the Scottish government had "revamped" the plans to deliver savings of more than £300m.

The reduced budget will mean that there will be no immediate increase in frequency of services between Glasgow and Edinburgh.

The planned electrification of Dunblane/Alloa services will also not be delivered in this phase of improvements.

These delays were criticised by the sustainable transport alliance, Transform Scotland.

Director Colin Howden said: "Today's announcement is merely a restatement of promises that the Scottish government has already made.

"What the government is actually announcing today is cuts to the Scotland's flagship rail project.

"Instead of the previously-promised six trains per hour, we're now only going to get four trains per hour. Furthermore, electrification will no longer reach Dunblane and Alloa.

"If completing these further phases is dependent on a new high-speed line reaching Scotland then the government is simply kicking these previously-promised investments into the long grass."

 

[HSTEd]

Do we know what this does for EMU demands for EGIP Phase 1? (and likely the only phase to be done).

 

[tbtc]

Do we know what this does for EMU demands for EGIP Phase 1? (and likely the only phase to be done).

If it's just the "shuttle" through Falkirk High then something in the region of twenty units to maintain a fifteen minute service with doubled up units at peak times - I take David Goddard's point about the "recovery" time at each end of the line

 

[Wolfie]

Taking the question at face value, looking solely at exterior appearance (as they are the only pictures I can find), I would say Class 503 and to a lesser extent Classes 502 and 506.

 

[sprinterguy]

Taking the question at face value, looking solely at exterior appearance (as they are the only pictures I can find), I would say Class 503 and to a lesser extent Classes 502 and 506.

If we're going to start going down that sort of road, then I always thought that Network Southeast livery made the Isle of Wight class 483s (The '38 tube stock that is still in use) look, much, much younger than they actually were, and did a lot to disguise their years:
http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Isle_of_Wight_483_001.jpg