Mobile Phones in the cab

[ComUtoR]

I used my mobile in the cab a few days ago and wondered how everyone feels about it.

We are allowed to use a mobile phone in the cab whilst the unit is stationary and the DRA has been applied. It is also part of our policy to call the fitters on our company supplied mobiles should we encounter a fault.

I asked the Signaler for permission to hang up his call so I could contact our fitters and investigate the fault and he could then replaces the signal to danger to run traffic past me and contact our control.

The whole process took approximately 7 minutes so the delay to passengers and other services were mitigated by the use of my company mobile.

With GSMR being cell based and having a phone book containing a wide variety of contact numbers is there any difference between using the GSMR terminal or a mobile phone ? Should all communication be banned and only Driver/Guard/Signaler be allowed ?

 

[Aivilo]

As long as your not in control there is no issue. Could you imagine the delays having to check a train and walk back to call the Bobby.

 

[neilb62]

Train stationary with the DRA applied? Not a problem for me! Our lot say they are not to be used whilst the train is in motion and I use mine for contacting fitters and / or control. The last few times I've tried to use the GSM-R for this I've had 'failed to connect' so have resorted to the company mobile.

 

[richw]

As a passenger its none of my business what your doing in the cab as long as safety isn't jeopardised,
At a guess its a lot lower risk than a car driver using a mobile phone,

 

[thealexweb]

If the unit was stationary and you had no other urgent duties to perform surely there is no problem.

 

[Crossover]

I've heard on here of some TOCs disallowing mobiles in the cab under any circumstances.

I was on a train last weekend that had a Network Rail guy board en-route, who was on the mobile on the platform and entered the cab still on the mobile (I heard him say on the lines of "I'm just entering the cab now")

 

[HLE]

Is it any more of a distraction than reading a paper/copy of red/book whilst in the cab and stationary?

Can't see how it would be.

 

[ComUtoR]

My rules might be a little rusty but I believe it is strictly prohibited. Its odd how our policy goes against the rule book but its safe and beneficial to all those involved.

I believe that it has been in and out of the rule book.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Is it any more of a distraction than reading a paper/copy of red/book whilst in the cab and stationary?

Can't see how it would be.

We have had more than one Driver getting a disciplinary for reading a newspaper. Its a sackable offense on our TOC. I contacted the RSSB recently and they are moving to a digital rulebook because TOC's issue mobile/tablets I do wonder what would happen if I was checking the dotel/rulebook. Surely that would then be acceptable ?

 

[Crossover]

My rules might be a little rusty but I believe it is strictly prohibited. Its odd how our policy goes against the rule book but its safe and beneficial to all those involved.

I believe that it has been in and out of the rule book.

It does sound like what your company do is sensible. It is just like if using one in the "normal" way in a car when parked up, it isn't going to cause a problem. If you're in a cab and "parked up" (with DRA as you say) then it isn't really an issue. I know some TOC's don't like it even on layover in stations, but heck, it doesn't particularly bother me if a member of rail staff is playing Candy Crush whilst on turnaround or such!

 

[ExRes]

I've heard on here of some TOCs disallowing mobiles in the cab under any circumstances.

I was on a train last weekend that had a Network Rail guy board en-route, who was on the mobile on the platform and entered the cab still on the mobile (I heard him say on the lines of "I'm just entering the cab now")

I'm not sure how much the rules have changed, even in 2010 the understanding was quite clear, the NR person was more than welcome to get in my stationary cab using his mobile as long as he didn't expect me to move the train until he'd finished his call, emergencies excepted of course

 

[Bletchleyite]

We have had more than one Driver getting a disciplinary for reading a newspaper. Its a sackable offense on our TOC.

Really? Crikey. Is a driver who is tired because he is so bored while waiting to depart not considered a risk?

 

[HarleyDavidson]

It's OFF whilst the train is in motion (although some use aircraft mode instead, which disconnects it from the network).

You can use it when stopped, provided the brake in in full service or emergency position, DRA set and it's being used in conjunction with faults and failures procedures (Phone a friend) or if the GSM-R goes defective or no network.

 

[ComUtoR]

Really? Crikey. Is a driver who is tired because he is so bored while waiting to depart not considered a risk?

You should check out "operational risk factors" It's a distraction vs boredom risk. Which is the greater ?

You can add rules and policy to deal with distractions in the cab but I very much doubt its possible to create a rule to alleviate boredom. On topic...

Mobiles create a distraction risk. Mobiles have also been the direct (ish) cause for a few rather nasty crashes and a few less nasty but still quite serious incidents.

We are at a point where mobiles have become almost essential. Whilst I don't support personal, casual phone calls to the missus etc there has to be a point where mobiles become the norm. As I highlighted. There is little to no difference between using the GSMR and a mobile phone.

Neil, FYI One almost lost his job, only lack of evidence kept it. That is how serious the railway takes the risks.

 

[Bletchleyite]

You should check out "operational risk factors" It's a distraction vs boredom risk. Which is the greater ?

A very interesting question (perhaps if it goes much further I should spawn a new thread). It is quite interesting that, other than fiddling with it while driving, road users are encouraged to listen to the radio as a means of maintaining attention and alertness in possibly boring situations, yet this kind of thing is an absolute no for railway staff.

 

[Johncleesefan]

A very interesting question (perhaps if it goes much further I should spawn a new thread). It is quite interesting that, other than fiddling with it while driving, road users are encouraged to listen to the radio as a means of maintaining attention and alertness in possibly boring situations, yet this kind of thing is an absolute no for railway staff.

My company policy is strictly emergencies only for mobile so I'm a good little boy and keep it off, as for gsmr, we are only allowed to use if stationary.

Wouldn't it be nice to have a bit of grimmy in the mornings to wake up to, (or is that just me ??????)

 

[Antman]

I've heard on here of some TOCs disallowing mobiles in the cab under any circumstances.

I was on a train last weekend that had a Network Rail guy board en-route, who was on the mobile on the platform and entered the cab still on the mobile (I heard him say on the lines of "I'm just entering the cab now")

When I was on the buses the use of mobiles in the cab was prohibited, if you needed to use it you got out of the cab to do so

 

[Bushy]

When my son was a bus driver they were expected to carry their own mobile, as it was the only way they could contact the depot if there was a problem. It had to be turned off, out of reach and out of sight unless the bus was parked and the engine off.

 

[lincolnshire]

When I was on the buses the use of mobiles in the cab was prohibited, if you needed to use it you got out of the cab to do so

Definitely agree with the above statement as I don,t think they have AWS, TPWS and a dead mans etc fitted on a bus as yet.

Well all said and done the train can,t get off the rails or switch lanes on the motorway like car drivers do on the phone, the most they can manage is to run someone down but there again they should have been looking out for the train coming unless they was a trespassing.

How did they manage years ago when they had a steam engine or class 20 with a big lump in front of you and only a view ahead down one side.
How did they manage when they had a second man with them in the cab bet some of them was a distraction at times.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Definitely agree with the above statement as I don,t think they have AWS, TPWS and a dead mans etc fitted on a bus as yet.

Well all said and done the train can,t get off the rails or switch lanes on the motorway like car drivers do on the phone, the most they can manage is to run someone down but there again they should have been looking out for the train coming unless they was a trespassing.

How did they manage years ago when they had a steam engine or class 20 with a big lump in front of you and only a view ahead down one side.
How did they manage when they had a second man with them in the cab bet some of them was a distraction at times.

There is use of a phone and abuse of a phone, its there for a purpose and if you just use it for idle chat and spend hours using it and talking about nothing the it has no place with you at work or in the office even.
They should be banned in a place of work, even in offices as your paid to work not talk on your phone or be sending text messages unless its part of your job description. All phone/ messaging use should be in your break times.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

As long as the mobile is switched off while carrying out safety Critical duties (Mainly for Drivers as Guards have work mobiles etc.) There is no problem. As a guard we are allowed to have personal mobiles but they should be on silent and do not go near them while doing Safety Critical duties ourselves. If for instance we are at a platform and the phone needs to be used we turn off DKS and step away from the train.

 

[notadriver]

When my son was a bus driver they were expected to carry their own mobile, as it was the only way they could contact the depot if there was a problem. It had to be turned off, out of reach and out of sight unless the bus was parked and the engine off.

Mobile phone abuse rarely hits the headlines on the railway but is quite common in the bus industry.


https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/f...driver-forgot-he-was-driving-a-double-decker/

'A bus driver who forgot he was driving a double decker as he tried to go under a low bridge – while on his mobile phone – has kept his licence.

Ross Ralph was filmed on the Stagecoach CCTV system talking on his mobile phone for 12 seconds as the 13ft bus ploughed into the 11ft railway bridge parapet earlier this year.'

 

[Antman]

As long as the mobile is switched off while carrying out safety Critical duties (Mainly for Drivers as Guards have work mobiles etc.) There is no problem. As a guard we are allowed to have personal mobiles but they should be on silent and do not go near them while doing Safety Critical duties ourselves. If for instance we are at a platform and the phone needs to be used we turn off DKS and step away from the train.

I think switching them onto silent rather than off is sufficient and they're ready to use in the event of an emergency
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Mobile phone abuse rarely hits the headlines on the railway but is quite common in the bus industry.


https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/f...driver-forgot-he-was-driving-a-double-decker/


'A bus driver who forgot he was driving a double decker as he tried to go under a low bridge – while on his mobile phone – has kept his licence.


Ross Ralph was filmed on the Stagecoach CCTV system talking on his mobile phone for 12 seconds as the 13ft bus ploughed into the 11ft railway bridge parapet earlier this year.'

I think using a phone when driving should be an automatic ban of at least three months, no excuses

 

[Carlisle]

When my son was a bus driver they were expected to carry their own mobile, as it was the only way they could contact the depot if there was a problem. It had to be turned off, out of reach and out of sight unless the bus was parked and the engine off.

Yes i always found it a little strange that some bus companies have an extremely draconian mobile phone policy but expect drivers to ansewer their radios ( where fitted ) almost instantly

 

[Whistler40145]

If drivers have mobile phones in the cab, then surely these shouldn't be personal phones, but owned by the relevant TOC/FOC and programmed to only make calls to e.g. Control and Engineers for faults, obviously for Emergency services calls.

 

[notadriver]

Yes i always found it a little strange that some bus companies have an extremely draconian mobile phone policy but expect drivers to ansewer their radios ( where fitted ) almost instantly

In addition to the draconian policy, driver facing CCTV ensures there is no doubt.

Bus companies obviously don't trust the drivers they employ. Disgusting.

 

[scotraildriver]

Mobiles are strictly banned in our cabs partly in response to this:



http://www.reuters.com/article/2008/10/02/us-usa-train-crash-idUSN0152835520081002

The train driver blamed for the worst U.S. train crash in 15 years was sending and receiving text messages seconds before his crowded commuter train skipped a red light and collided head-on with a freight train, federal investigators said on Wednesday.

The Metrolink commuter train plowed into a Union Pacific freight locomotive on September 12 in Chatsworth, California...

However the roll out of tablets for drivers has begun so a re think will be necessary.

 

[TDK]

I used my mobile in the cab a few days ago and wondered how everyone feels about it.

We are allowed to use a mobile phone in the cab whilst the unit is stationary and the DRA has been applied. It is also part of our policy to call the fitters on our company supplied mobiles should we encounter a fault.

I asked the Signaler for permission to hang up his call so I could contact our fitters and investigate the fault and he could then replaces the signal to danger to run traffic past me and contact our control.

The whole process took approximately 7 minutes so the delay to passengers and other services were mitigated by the use of my company mobile.

With GSMR being cell based and having a phone book containing a wide variety of contact numbers is there any difference between using the GSMR terminal or a mobile phone ? Should all communication be banned and only Driver/Guard/Signaler be allowed ?

This all depends on your company policy on the use of mobile phones to be fair. Ours have to be switched off whilst in the cab and I have always used the GSM-R to contact anyone including recourses via this method. The only time I use my mobile at work is either in the saloon or outside the train if I cannot contact the department I am after. If the number I require is not in the GSMR phone book I will only if the train is at a stand (obviously) go into the vestibule or the saloon to make a call, this way I am complying with the rules set out by the company I work for. I have had signallers before ask me for my mobile phone number if I am in a long delay situation for more than 15 minutes so I can sit in the saloon and then be contacted when they need to pass information so I don't have to sit in the cab, I feel in this scenario it is fine as long as there is a clear understanding on the situation.

I do feel the rules are a little strict but historically there have been serious incidents in the past with drivers having operational incidents where a mobile phone has been a contributory factor in the incident.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

If drivers have mobile phones in the cab, then surely these shouldn't be personal phones, but owned by the relevant TOC/FOC and programmed to only make calls to e.g. Control and Engineers for faults, obviously for Emergency services calls.

Our company do not issue company mobile phones to drivers

 

[notadriver]

How are you expected to be contacted in times of disruption etc if you don't have a phone ?

 

[TDK]

A very interesting question (perhaps if it goes much further I should spawn a new thread). It is quite interesting that, other than fiddling with it while driving, road users are encouraged to listen to the radio as a means of maintaining attention and alertness in possibly boring situations, yet this kind of thing is an absolute no for railway staff.

I think they may be down to hearing the various beeps and whistles that go off in the cab that you do not have in a car. To be fair the boring factor and alertness for me personally is not an issue, I have been told I am a completely different person when driving my train than when I am not but this is probably an individual thing from person to person.

 

[GB]

The whole banning of mobiles in my opinion was a knee jerk reaction to the Chatsworth accident in Los Angeles where the driver of the passenger train really took the ****.

If the trains on clear signals, is within speed then I really don't see much of an issue to use a mobile for work purposes and is it really any different to using GSMR, checking time sheets, documents etc etc.

 

[Antman]

In addition to the draconian policy, driver facing CCTV ensures there is no doubt.

Bus companies obviously don't trust the drivers they employ. Disgusting.

The CCTV is there to protect drivers and passengers so let's not be too melodramatic