MML Electrification: progress updates

[59CosG95]

Further south, another quick scan from AIVR shows that fresh Mk3 cantilevers have been put in on most (but not all) Single Track Cantilever (STC) masts in the Ampthill area; these have a deeper-curved registration arm to allow for the higher uplift caused by pantographs above 100mph. There are a couple near Flitwick and Bedford too - they really stand out against the older-looking masts to which they're affixed!

 

[Nottingham59]

75m - 95m range will need pretty straight track but still plenty of benefit if 85m can be achieved on bigger schemes.

Potential for the mast count to be reduced by 1 in 4 at the very best in the right circumstances but at least 1 in 8 fewer should be easily achievable.

Though I guess there's always the risk that it ends up like the ECML where the spans were set to the maximum to save money and that has led to an unacceptable rate of dewirements and wind damage over the years.

 

[blueberry11]

Rather misleading. The St Pancras/ Moorgate-Bedford electrification was authorised in 1976 and basically completed in 1982 (although actual electric services didn’t take off until 1983 because of disputes about driver-only operation). So the project was done and dusted and the construction and project teams disbanded over 40 years ago. I worked on the project for a while.

There was never any serious plan (or funding) to wire north of Bedford at that time.

So although its listed as a priority, it wasn't even planned to electrify beyond Bedford at the time (ie, they never took it to the planning stage)? How about the GWML? It only took two years to electrify 50 miles worth of track to Bedford.

Speaking of DOO disputes, it's also listed on the MML Wikipedia project page (which as said earlier, is on the front page of Wikipedia under 'Did you know'). Out of the 6.8 million pages on Wikipedia, this one was so lucky to end up on DYK, along with eight other facts.

The commuter route at the southern end of the line between London St Pancras and Bedford, nicknamed the Bedpan line, was electrified with overhead line in the early 1980s and completed in 1983. This section is mainly a commuter route. It was the subject of an industrial dispute when driver-only operation (DOO) electric trains were introduced.

 

[Nottingham59]

Out of the 6.8 million pages on Wikipedia, this one was so lucky to end up on DYK, along with eight other facts.

Pages get nominated for DYK when they are new or when they have been given a major rewrite with significant additional material added. From the discussion on Wikipedia, I think the trigger in this case was the article being upgraded to Good Article status on 5 August.

Template:Did you know nominations/Midland Main Line upgrade - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Killingworth]

I don't really pay attention to the did you know (DYK) section of the Wikipedia. But nevertheless, it was so funny and interesting reading what is on there. Additionally, it was crazy that 40 years ago, they planned to electrify the MML, but only went up to Bedford.

"They" may well have been those in political positions who are all too prone to promising the earth but with no idea of the practical and financial implications conspiring to make it impossible.

In the context of this thread our previous Rail Minister Huw Merriman was asked when electrification to Sheffield would be complete back in February at Transport for the North's Annual Conference in Liverpool. 2030. Challenged on that later he conceded early 2030s, as he did again on 8th April when reopening Dore Totley station with MML trains rushing by. Hope Valley line is also to be electrified, he said. Benefits from cancellation of HS2?

Given that redoubling the tracks through Dore has been in serious planning processes for 25 years it wouldn't surprise me at all if 40 years ago someone had suggested full electrification of the MML. A wish, a dream, an intention, even a political 'promise.'

All these things remind me that the Stockton & Darlington Railway was opened in 1825. By 1849 trains were running between Edinburgh and London across the Royal Border bridge at Berwick and the High Level bridge over the Tyne.

 

[Edvid]

More drivers' eye view videos of the Midland are up on Mick Lewis' YouTube channel, including the now-energised K2W stretch posted below.

There are quite a few pan-up/down boards in place (for test trains only; the Class 810 versions are bagged up).

Further south, another quick scan from AIVR shows that fresh Mk3 cantilevers have been put in on most (but not all) Single Track Cantilever (STC) masts in the Ampthill area; these have a deeper-curved registration arm to allow for the higher uplift caused by pantographs above 100mph. There are a couple near Flitwick and Bedford too - they really stand out against the older-looking masts to which they're affixed!

Ah good. The first OLE125 weekend possession was almost a year ago so I was wondering when reregistration would get underway.

For the rest of this calendar year there are another three weekend possessions to come (28/29 Sep, 19/20 Oct, 7/8 Dec) and a long possession during the Christmas break. It'll be interesting to see how much OLE125 work gets done during the latter!

 

[Ploughman]

EDIT: a closer look at the cross-section shows that the "system height" (the gap between catenary and contact wires at the cantilever) had to be set to 1.9m, to allow the minimum dropper* height for a span of this length to be maintained at the midspan. Normally on the MML the system height is 1.3m, with the catenary at 6.0m above the rail, and the contact at 4.7m. These two new cantilevers had to set the catenary height at 6.6m while the contact was unchanged - something that the Bonomi cantilevers used on the MML currently can't achieve.


During the LNW Electrification work in the 90's We worked on a Vegetation clearance height of 6m above Rail and 6m out. Have these dimensions now been revised?

 

[Bald Rick]

There was never any serious plan (or funding) to wire north of Bedford at that time.

I may be wrong here, but I understood that the plan was to progressively electrify north of Bedford, with London - Bedford stage 1, then on to Leicester “and beyind….”. This was a London Midland Region plan, and based on the APT plan for the WCML which would have released loads of AC Locos and hauled stock that needed a home, and where better than ‘next door’.

However the troubles with the APT, and then sectorisarion in ‘82 effectively scuppered that, with Intercity (quite rightly) deciding that if there was to be more ‘intercity’ main line electrification, then the ECML was the best place to do so as it offered more revenue gain and cost savings than the MML, and therefore a better return on the investment.

Lodged in my brain somewhere is that there was a submission for at least part of the MML electrification in to the DfT (or ready to go into the DfT) around 81 / 82, which was subsequently withdrawn. The ASLEF strikes around then didn‘t help obviously.

Certainly nothing was authorised for the MML, but I thought initial design work had been done. Certainly when Leicester was resignalled in the mid 80s it was done with full electrification clearances on all the gantries and immunised track corcuits etc., so someone thought it was in the offing.

 

[Peter Sarf]

I may be wrong here, but I understood that the plan was to progressively electrify north of Bedford, with London - Bedford stage 1, then on to Leicester “and beyind….”. This was a London Midland Region plan, and based on the APT plan for the WCML which would have released loads of AC Locos and hauled stock that needed a home, and where better than ‘next door’.

However the troubles with the APT, and then sectorisarion in ‘82 effectively scuppered that, with Intercity (quite rightly) deciding that if there was to be more ‘intercity’ main line electrification, then the ECML was the best place to do so as it offered more revenue gain and cost savings than the MML, and therefore a better return on the investment.

Lodged in my brain somewhere is that there was a submission for at least part of the MML electrification in to the DfT (or ready to go into the DfT) around 81 / 82, which was subsequently withdrawn. The ASLEF strikes around then didn‘t help obviously.

Certainly nothing was authorised for the MML, but I thought initial design work had been done. Certainly when Leicester was resignalled in the mid 80s it was done with full electrification clearances on all the gantries and immunised track corcuits etc., so someone thought it was in the offing.

Indeed it is easy to forget how the goalposts would have moved with APT falling by the wayside. Pity Kestrel (HS4000) had been forgotten about.

It meant emphasis switched alarmingly from a high speed electric tilting train to a diesel train. Thinking about it now - what chance for electrification !.

 

[Dr Hoo]

I was only involved in the Bedford project until early 1978. Ironically as a lowest grade clerk I had access to most of the files, of which I read many more than my miscellaneous duties strictly required. All I can say is that it was very much a self contained ‘local’ project at the time. North of Sharnbrook was a still forgotten land of semaphore signals. And nobody was designing in 125/140/155 mph APT tensions into the flimsy headspan catenary.

 

[Trainman40083]

I was only involved in the Bedford project until early 1978. Ironically as a lowest grade clerk I had access to most of the files, of which I read many more than my miscellaneous duties strictly required. All I can say is that it was very much a self contained ‘local’ project at the time. North of Sharnbrook was a still forgotten land of semaphore signals. And nobody was designing in 125/140/155 mph APT tensions into the flimsy headspan catenary.

Just imagine if the OHLE south of Bedford had been designed for higher speed trains. They would not have had to upgrade it. As it stands, it is entirely probable bimodes will run on diesel south of Bedford for a period after they are introduced.

 

[John R]

Just imagine if the OHLE south of Bedford had been designed for higher speed trains. They would not have had to upgrade it. As it stands, it is entirely probable bimodes will run on diesel south of Bedford for a period after they are introduced.

It was designed nearly half a century ago…

 

[Vexed]

Just imagine if the OHLE south of Bedford had been designed for higher speed trains. They would not have had to upgrade it. As it stands, it is entirely probable bimodes will run on diesel south of Bedford for a period after they are introduced.

The new trains are delayed while the OLE125 (what Network Rail call the upgrade work) upgrades are broadly on schedule. So if the trains keep getting delayed then they should be able to stay on electric as Network Rail will have finished upgrading by then.

Of course with the original timeline the trains would have been introduced well before the OLE125 upgrades were complete. It would have made sense at the time to go for the cheaper 100mph operation as there wasn't much of a prospect of faster trains in the short/medium term.

 

[edwin_m]

I may be wrong here, but I understood that the plan was to progressively electrify north of Bedford, with London - Bedford stage 1, then on to Leicester “and beyind….”. This was a London Midland Region plan, and based on the APT plan for the WCML which would have released loads of AC Locos and hauled stock that needed a home, and where better than ‘next door’.

However the troubles with the APT, and then sectorisarion in ‘82 effectively scuppered that, with Intercity (quite rightly) deciding that if there was to be more ‘intercity’ main line electrification, then the ECML was the best place to do so as it offered more revenue gain and cost savings than the MML, and therefore a better return on the investment.

Lodged in my brain somewhere is that there was a submission for at least part of the MML electrification in to the DfT (or ready to go into the DfT) around 81 / 82, which was subsequently withdrawn. The ASLEF strikes around then didn‘t help obviously.

Certainly nothing was authorised for the MML, but I thought initial design work had been done. Certainly when Leicester was resignalled in the mid 80s it was done with full electrification clearances on all the gantries and immunised track corcuits etc., so someone thought it was in the offing.

I'm pretty sure NSE was thinking of extending Thameslink to Corby - wasn't it included on the blinds of the 319s? This was in conjunction with a theme park project I think (not Battersea, or Ebbsfleet, or Wixams...).

 

[Merle Haggard]

I'm pretty sure NSE was thinking of extending Thameslink to Corby - wasn't it included on the blinds of the 319s? This was in conjunction with a theme park project I think (not Battersea, or Ebbsfleet, or Wixams...).

Corby World!!!
I remember going past the proposed site on the A43 - an abandoned ironstone pit and an old touring caravan with a banner on the side. That's as far as it got physically.
But lots of publicity - and probably money raising by the entrepreneur...

 

[John R]

Wonderworld it was called, although as the delays in anything happening continued, it was often called Wonderwhen.

 

[Trainman40083]

It was designed nearly half a century ago…

I guess it was, when the Class 317s came in.

 

[Mag_seven]

Just a gentle reminder that this thread is for the provision of MML Electrification Progress Updates.

If anyone wants to discuss anything else then they are welcome to start a new thread elsewhere.

thanks

 

[Snow1964]

The new trains are delayed while the OLE125 (what Network Rail call the upgrade work) upgrades are broadly on schedule. So if the trains keep getting delayed then they should be able to stay on electric as Network Rail will have finished upgrading by then.

With some of the conversion to the wires for speeds above 100mph now done, probably at the point where staying on electric at 100mph for remainder is roughly same time as having periods of coasting whilst doing pan up / pan down.

The time difference is likely to be couple of minutes at best, and in timetabling talk, no more than a 2 minute engineering allowance.

I suspect the pan up / down boards south of Bedford will be obsolete before 810s are in regular service.

 

[edwin_m]

According to October Modern Railways, 810s are expected in passenger service from late 2025 and final testing of OLE125 by summer 2025. So if both those happen as planned, 810s shouldn't be running in diesel mode in passenger service anywhere south of Bedford.

 

[Edvid]

With some of the conversion to the wires for speeds above 100mph now done, probably at the point where staying on electric at 100mph for remainder is roughly same time as having periods of coasting whilst doing pan up / pan down.

Headspan renewals and BWA upgrades have formed the bulk of the project's first year AFAICT; I think adjustments to OLE tension / registration / grading will ramp up in the second year. In any case, I don't believe any of the EMU100 differentials have been lifted, or will be lifted until project completion.

 

[Nottingham59]

Analysis of the MML as congested infrastructure said that Kettering to Wigston carried very little freight because they can't path slow freight trains in between the passenger expresses.

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/Midland-Main-Line-Congested-Infrastructure-Capacity-Analysis-240315.pdf

The primary constraint on freight capacity on this section of route is the
spacing of EMT passenger services (4 in each direction in a standard hour),
and the speed differential between them and the slower freight trains. A
typical Up direction Class 6 freight train takes 38 minutes non-stop between
Leicester South Jn and Kettering North Jn. Adding the planning headway of
4½ minutes, this margin is not available in the standard hour pattern, although
it is occasionally available at either end of the day.

Now that this section is electrified, does it mean that bimode freight locomotives (classes 88, 93, 99) will be able to use this route and avoid the longer way round through Manton?

 

[Snow1964]

Now that this section is electrified, does it mean that bimode freight locomotives (classes 88, 93, 99) will be able to use this route and avoid the longer way round through Manton?

I don't think any have been certified yet, but in theory yes

 

[D Mylchreest]

I'm wondering when MLL Electrification will reach Sheffield. Wiki says it in 'RS8' which I presume is a planning period. That's OK but when will 'RS8' occur?

 

[Vexed]

RS8 is just the name given to that section of MML electrification. It's nothing to do with a time frame. Stands for Route Section 8.

 

[D Mylchreest]

RS8 is just the name given to that section of MML electrification. It's nothing to do with a time frame. Stands for Route Section 8.

Thank you for the clarification. But when is the electrification of RS8 going to happen?

 

[Vexed]

Thank you for the clarification. But when is the electrification of RS8 going to happen?

The earliest would be CP8 (Control Period 8) which is 2029-2034 and could easily end up being delayed beyond that. I'm not aware of any solid dates/year.

 

[duffield]

Thank you for the clarification. But when is the electrification of RS8 going to happen?

As I understand it, we literally do not know the answer as of now.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

As I understand it, we literally do not know the answer as of now.

A lot of spinning that Reeves will tweak fiscal rules to allow investment in infrastructure to be excluded from the debt to GDP calculation. As to what it will/could be spent on remains to be seen but at least maintaining continuity of the few electrification teams still (semi) mobilised so we at least don't lose experience again would be worthy.

 

[Killingworth]

The earliest would be CP8 (Control Period 8) which is 2029-2034 and could easily end up being delayed beyond that. I'm not aware of any solid dates/year.

When I suggested to Huw Merriman that his 2030 date was optimistic he clarified it to be early 2030s. I said I'd be surprised if it was before 2035. Lack of disagreement suggests that is probably the best date we can expect, barring a railway miracle.