MML Electrification: progress updates

[Bald Rick]

I wonder if KO1a OLE work will also involve gauge clearance to W12 south of Bedford - unlikely, perhaps, given the intensity of the Thameslink timetable.

Very unlikely. There’s a number of tunnels that would be extraordinarily disruptive to clear (slow lines Belsize tunnel being the worst) Several few bridges on minimum clearance (Victoria Street St Albans being one) and the inconvenient point that gauge clearance of the south MML doesn’t really help many intermodal flows.

 

[59CosG95]

EWR already has a north facing connection to the MML and has had for about 30 years since Bedford to Bletchley trains were diverted to Bedford Midland?

A north-facing one from the west, sure, but not from the east, hence why using Bedford to Wigston as an alternative to Ely - Peterborough - Wigston didn't wash when I thought it would.

That said, the Felixstowe - Bristol liner could use it...

 

[flitwickbeds]

EWR already has a north facing connection to the MML and has had for about 30 years since Bedford to Bletchley trains were diverted to Bedford Midland?

Is it a connection to the mainline, though? I thought it just went into BDM platform 1a? Can it connect so a train can continue northwards up towards Wellingborough?

 

[21C101]

Is it a connection to the mainline, though? I thought it just went into BDM platform 1a? Can it connect so a train can continue northwards up towards Wellingborough?

As far as I am aware, yes

 

[flitwickbeds]

As far as I am aware, yes

Thanks, didn't know that!

 

[Class 170101]

In the new Modern Railways (Feb) it says NR is still working on plans for the upgrade of the OHLE between St Pancras and Bedford to 125mph, with no completion date set.
810s will therefore run on diesel over this section at first, which leaves only 22 miles on electric before Kettering (33 miles when the wires reach Market Harborough, which is still not formally approved).
Presumably the 810s can switch to electric south of Cricklewood where the line speed is 100mph or less, and remain on electric at the terminus.

It would be interesting to see whether Class 810s running on Electric at upto 100mph between St Pancras and Bedford then with upto 125mph running forward to Braybrooke Feeder Station and on Diesel north thereof would actually cost that much in journey times over Class 222s today so in the interim the lack of upto 125mph running south of Bedford may not be a problem.

Is it a connection to the mainline, though? I thought it just went into BDM platform 1a? Can it connect so a train can continue northwards up towards Wellingborough?

One can have a single train from Bletchley to Kettering if it was provided as the track and signalling is there to do it. I have been on a Charter Train that has done this move.

 

[Domh245]

It would be interesting to see whether Class 810s running on Electric at upto 100mph between St Pancras and Bedford then with upto 125mph running forward to Braybrooke Feeder Station and on Diesel north thereof would actually cost that much in journey times over Class 222s today so in the interim the lack of upto 125mph running south of Bedford may not be a problem.

It would very much be a problem to the tune of 3ish minutes and thus the paths going by this post

 

[richieb1971]

EWR already has a north facing connection to the MML and has had for about 30 years since Bedford to Bletchley trains were diverted to Bedford Midland?

For a moment I thought the same. The question and answer is relative from Cambridge though. As the approach comes in from Cambridge the spur at or around Oakley will head south only, with no provision for a triangle there.

 

[adamedwards]

The question then is how much demand is there for a train from Cambridge turning north, missing out Bedford to be next stop Wellingborough, given there is already a Cambridge Peterborough Leicester service? Is there a market which will justify the cost of the extra curve? Freight use for example?

 

[edwin_m]

The question then is how much demand is there for a train from Cambridge turning north, missing out Bedford to be next stop Wellingborough, given there is already a Cambridge Peterborough Leicester service? Is there a market which will justify the cost of the extra curve? Freight use for example?

I thought we came in on this point with a suggestion that freight could use this route instead of going via Ely and Peterborough. But to do so the freight would also have to negotiate the single line through Newmarket, joining the busy Cambridge-Ely line very slowly, find a way through Cambridge and Cambridge South stations and share the ECML to get to Peterborouough, where southbound trains from Spalding direction would have to cross on the flat instead of using the diveunder. I suspect call that is harder than sorting out Ely North and improving headways on the route between there and Peterborough.

 

[richieb1971]

I will make a thread in speculation about EWR and its northern curves.

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/ewr-plausibility-of-a-northern-curve-at-bedford-oakley-or-bletchley.213330/

 

[43096]

Is it a connection to the mainline, though? I thought it just went into BDM platform 1a? Can it connect so a train can continue northwards up towards Wellingborough?

Given that services other than the local service use the line - for example new Class 387s were delivered from Bombardier to Bletchley depot that way - the answer is “yes”.

 

[edwin_m]

There used to be waste trains from London that reversed at Bedford onto the Marston Vale line to head for one of the big holes where the clay was extracted for the old brickworks.

 

[Bald Rick]

There used to be waste trains from London that reversed at Bedford onto the Marston Vale line to head for one of the big holes where the clay was extracted for the old brickworks.

Indeed - Forders Sidings.

 

[richieb1971]

Platforms 1 and 2 are accessible to EWR and vale line.

The problem is that terminators are parked in there especially in the peak.

Platform 3 is ideal for terminators but THL are greedy and want the whole station.

 

[A0]

Platforms 1 and 2 are accessible to EWR and vale line.

The problem is that terminators are parked in there especially in the peak.

Platform 3 is ideal for terminators but THL are greedy and want the whole station.

I doubt the TOC gets the decision on which platform(s) it gets allocated for a service ? Surely that's a signaller's decision based on what other traffic they need to handle ?

And isn't P3 the southbound fast one ? So there are EMR services to consider and I don't think there's access to the depot / carriage sidings southbound from P3, where there is from P1 and P2 ?

And you reckon THL are being "greedy and want the whole station" yet aren't using P3 ? So how does that work exactly as you seem to be contradicting yourself.

 

[21C101]

I doubt the TOC gets the decision on which platform(s) it gets allocated for a service ? Surely that's a signaller's decision based on what other traffic they need to handle ?

And isn't P3 the southbound fast one ? So there are EMR services to consider and I don't think there's access to the depot / carriage sidings southbound from P3, where there is from P1 and P2 ?

And you reckon THL are being "greedy and want the whole station" yet aren't using P3 ? So how does that work exactly as you seem to be contradicting yourself.

Up to 8 an hour terminating and 8 an hour departing, plus 2 EMR up trains an hour have to share platforms 1-3. up fast is a through line without platfom (as was down fast until platform 4 was built a few years back.

 

[richieb1971]

As stated P3 is a loop platform used in both directions but it only has access to the MML in each direction. Any Thameslink service using it just reverses out which is why I stated it should be used where possible.

In the morning rush hour expect to see 3 trains in all 3 platforms at certain intervals, usually one moves within a few mins but from experience another trundles in shortly after. Anything entering from the Vale line gets haulted on the Ouse bridge from that direction. Freight regularly gets haulted near Oakley from the north and Kempston from the south because of this. South of Bedford the slow lines are used bi-directional into Bedford for about 2 miles.

There is no platform for southern fast trains they hit the points north of Bedford and stop in P1 2 or 3. P4 was built about 15 years ago to facilitate northern fasts as there was room to do it.

The vale trains use 1a, which is a terminus platform that can hold 3 or 4 coaches I believe. Most freight from that direction uses p1. Occasionally a THL train will appear for P2 from the sidings but is accessible from the vale line as well.

 

[flitwickbeds]

P4 was built about 15 years ago

Are you sure it was that recently? I've been using it regularly for 10 years and have memories from at least 10 years prior to that of it existing.

 

[Bald Rick]

Are you sure it was that recently? I've been using it regularly for 10 years and have memories from at least 10 years prior to that of it existing.

It was required for when the MML service doubled with the turbostars, about 1999 IIRC

 

[21C101]

It was required for when the MML service doubled with the turbostars, about 1999 IIRC

Time flies!

 

[John Webb]

Napsbury works: For information I drove past this afternoon on my way to my first Covid jab - the access point by the North Orbital Trading Estate was completely clear of equipment and any signs of activity.

 

[59CosG95]

Napsbury works: For information I drove past this afternoon on my way to my first Covid jab - the access point by the North Orbital Trading Estate was completely clear of equipment and any signs of activity.

ISTR that NR are still fleshing out the design of how to upgrade the OLE to the improved spec, so there might not be any work related to the new sectioning location there (or East Hyde, and poss. Leagrave) until the design for the KO1a upgrade is approved.
Any work to remove the boosters between Borehamwood & Bedford (converting the route to Aerial Earth Wire), and any associated bonding work will probably be covered in a separate design.

 

[SPL-OLE1989]

To my eye, that first horizontal looks very sagged. I would have thought that they should be hogged! Or is it the camera lens?

Correct, the contractor who installed them built them upside down. Believe Amey had the contract for just the stations. They were then taken down again and built correctly and re-installed.

 

[MarkLong]

Is there any update on the authorization progress of the North of Market Harborough section?

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Is there any update on the authorization progress of the North of Market Harborough section?

I dont even think I have seen an official announcement that to MH is even approved never mind north of it. I am certain it will happen but I have not seen it made official.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

Is there any update on the authorization progress of the North of Market Harborough section?

Checks calendar. Nope, not 1st April.

Back to headbutting a wall with the words hydrogen and ****weed written on it.

 

[Class 170101]

Is there any update on the authorization progress of the North of Market Harborough section?

Not expecting to see any updates whilst one of the Transport chiefs insists on spending his time tweeting bad jokes.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

Not expecting to see any updates whilst one of the Transport chiefs insists on spending his time tweeting bad jokes.

Chris Grayling and hydrogen, or Chris Heaton-Harris and the Christmas cracker rejects ?

 

[Class 170101]

Chris Grayling and hydrogen, or Chris Heaton-Harris and the Christmas cracker rejects ?

Definitely Heaton Harris. Grayling is screwing up Felixstowe.