MML Electrification: progress updates

[Bald Rick]

Bedford to Luton is a tadge under 20 miles. If you assume 125 through Bedford and Luton stations no restrictions in between the maximum time saving is 3 m 24 secs. vice 100 mph max I got the impression the line was a lot slower than that on my admittedly rare excursions.

On the down (which is the more restrictive), it’s 110mph from Luton North to Leagrave Jn (about 2 1/2 miles), 120 from Leagrave to Sundon (2 miles), then 125 from there for the 14 miles to just short of Bedford station. These are the HST speeds.

 

[paul1609]

On the down (which is the more restrictive), it’s 110mph from Luton North to Leagrave Jn (about 2 1/2 miles), 120 from Leagrave to Sundon (2 miles), then 125 from there for the 14 miles to just short of Bedford station. These are the HST speeds.

What are the speeds through the stations?

 

[Bald Rick]

What are the speeds through the stations?

Luton: 90 Down, 100 up
Leagrave: 110 Down, 125 up
Harlington & Flitwick: 125 Down, 120 up
Bedford: 110 Down, 125 up

 

[adamedwards]

So the logic of this would be to do the upgrade from Luton to Bedford first as maximum benefit for EMR trains and lease conflict with Thameslink. Indeed it does then beg the question is raising the line speed south of Luton worth doing given higher electric acceleration and the limits of the Thameslink timetable (110mph 700s is I assume not sensible)? I am assuming the power supply still needs reinforcement as more electric trains.

 

[MMLLuton]

So I just happened to of received this in the post. Can anyone explain if this is to do with the upgrade of the OHLE?

 

[21C101]

So the logic of this would be to do the upgrade from Luton to Bedford first as maximum benefit for EMR trains and lease conflict with Thameslink. Indeed it does then beg the question is raising the line speed south of Luton worth doing given higher electric acceleration and the limits of the Thameslink timetable (110mph 700s is I assume not sensible)? I am assuming the power supply still needs reinforcement as more electric trains.

Will the Corby EMUs be uprated to 110mph?

Can't see a problem doing the 700s unless uprating them to 110mph means revised gearing adversely affects low speed acceleration, in which case it would be out of the question

 

[Philip Phlopp]

Will the Corby EMUs be uprated to 110mph?

Yes. Done already. It's a relatively small change to the motor internals to accommodate a higher RPM limit and thus increased forces on the internals. There's no other changes to the gearing etc.

 

[Domh245]

Yes. Done already. It's a relatively small change to the motor internals to accommodate a higher RPM limit and thus increased forces on the internals. There's no other changes to the gearing etc.

Plus the changes to wipers, pantograph, horns and lighting

 

[Philip Phlopp]

Plus the changes to wipers, pantograph, horns and lighting

but we were discussing gearing and motor upgrades.

 

[59CosG95]

So I just happened to of received this in the post. Can anyone explain if this is to do with the upgrade of the OHLE?

Yes - could easily be part of the removal of the booster transformers and conversion of the Return Conductor to Aerial Earth Wire. The SA states it as being from between Luton (30m 19ch) and a point halfway between Leagrave Jn (33m 18ch) and the OHNS at Sundon (35m 35ch); there are at least 2 'boostered overlaps' along this stretch. Each boostered area is bounded by a Mid-Point Connection (MPC), so the chainages given on that letter are doubtless the approximate chainages of the MPCs equidistant from Leagrave Tamper Siding.

I'd guess there are more similarly partitioned worksites elsewhere between Borehamwood & Bedford.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Jan 2021 ==

As for the work between Kettering & Mkt H'boro, I've seen on EMR's website that, on Tuesday to Saturday next week (12-16 Jan), the last trains of the night (and first train the following morning) will be diverted between Kettering & Leicester, not calling at Mkt H'boro. This leads me to believe that the piling work north of Kettering is due to commence again soon. (There is another big date on the 24th when the entire route between Kettering & Loughborough/Syston North Jn is blocked - no trains at Mkt H'boro or Leicester; XC bustitution between Melton Mowbray & Nuneaton; EMR bustitution between Ket & L'boro, diversions via Corby)

 

[59CosG95]

Additional updates on Engineering Work (as of 8/1/21):
7 February - Engineering work closing *some* lines between Radlett & Harpended, leading to timetable amendments. (https://www.thameslinkrailway.com/t...k?date=2021-02-07#engineering-departure-board)
13/14 February - Engineering Work closing *some* lines between Bedford & Luton, leading to bus replacement until 0805 on the Sunday morning. (https://www.thameslinkrailway.com/t...k?date=2021-02-13#engineering-departure-board)
@MMLLuton - this might be of interest to you!

21 March - Engineering Work closing *some* lines between Luton & St Pancras, curtailing Corby services to a COR-KET shuttle. (https://www.thameslinkrailway.com/t...k?date=2021-03-21#engineering-departure-board)
It isn't yet shown how Thameslink are affected by this.

 

[Bald Rick]

I think the March block is prep for the Easter works for Brent Cross.

 

[59CosG95]

I think the March block is prep for the Easter works for Brent Cross.

Ah, that makes sense. That'd almost certainly shut all 4 electrified lines off to Thameslink then, taking an isolation between Kentish Town & Grahame Park (Silkstream Jn) Sectioning AT sites as a minimum.
Interesting that the worksite extends to Luton though; NR/SPL might want to seize the opportunity to undertake some work between Luton Hoo TSC & Grahame Park SATS.
I guess we'll have to see nearer to the time.

 

[snowball]

Has any electric train yet run in public service north of Bedford?

If not, is the main reason the delay to the cascade of trains from Anglia, caused by the delay in supply of new trains from Bombardier to Anglia due to software problems?

 

[Domh245]

Has any electric train yet run in public service north of Bedford?

If not, is the main reason the delay to the cascade of trains from Anglia, caused by the delay in supply of new trains from Bombardier to Anglia due to software problems?

No service trains north of Bedford yet, no. The delay in the stock arriving won't have helped, but the late completion of the electrification works themselves would have delayed it just as much had the 360s been released according to the original plan - it's only a couple of weeks since trains were able to run live and in multiple under the new wires for example

 

[Bald Rick]

Has any electric train yet run in public service north of Bedford?

If not, is the main reason the delay to the cascade of trains from Anglia, caused by the delay in supply of new trains from Bombardier to Anglia due to software problems?

It’s not delayed (to the revised programme). None are planned to run in service for some time yet. The diagrams don’t make it easy for starters. Almost every train arriving at St Pancras from Corby goes back out to Sheffield / Nottingham.

 

[Supercoss]

In a strange decision the TOC that serves Bedford as what was " end of the line" has declined to carry out any driver training to explore
the full potential of energisation.
It may be Covid or trade union related but Network Rail have gauge cleared all lines from Bedford south Junction (fasts) and from previous end of wire at Platform 2 and 3 at Bedford, plus plat 1 from beyond North EMU siding connection to enable Class 700 stock to serve platform 4 at Bedford.
The train would then empty out and shunt via Bedford North Junction to return south.
Or similarly would arrive in plat 3 2 or 1 from the south, terminate than run to Bedford North Junction, change ends then return into platform or bypass station up fast.
Massive performane gain in platform dwell time, about one extra mile north of Bedfors station
but unsure why TOC is not taking up the offer, too many crew to train perhaps with covid
But aside, 700s now route cleared to Bedford North Junction and through plat 4.

 

[edwin_m]

but unsure why TOC is not taking up the offer, too many crew to train perhaps with covid
But aside, 700s now route cleared to Bedford North Junction and through plat 4.

I think that's probably the reason - it's been hard enough to do training for essential routes, and while this will help with disruption it isn't necessary to run the timetable.

 

[21C101]

I think that's probably the reason - it's been hard enough to do training for essential routes, and while this will help with disruption it isn't necessary to run the timetable.

If you are going to do that, then build a platform and car park on the Up Slow here and terminate two Thameslinks an hour there.

 

[Supercoss]

It's not a huge mileage, in fact just one signal section North of the station but a significant achievement
perhaps comparing it to operations at Amersham on the end of the Metropolitan Line where reversing facilities available
away from the platforms freeing up platform space for next train behind.
As crews can change ends internally no requirement for walking routes etc

 

[richieb1971]

Just out of interest what are the gauges through Bedford and can it support intermodal traffic?

OHLE was supposed to facilitate that to some degree with all the arched bridges gone now.

Thanks

 

[Bald Rick]

Just out of interest what are the gauges through Bedford and can it support intermodal traffic?

OHLE was supposed to facilitate that to some degree with all the arched bridges gone now.

Thanks

AIUI Beford to Kettering is now W12 clear.

South of Bedford is W8 to the Hendon lines, W6 south of there on the main line.

North of Kettering is W6 or W7.

So yes you could run an intermodal, as long as it didn’t have containers taller than 8’6”, had low height wagons, and wasn’t going south of Cricklewood or north of Kettering.

Clearing the route for bigger containers will be phenomenally expensive and disruptive.

 

[richieb1971]

AIUI Beford to Kettering is now W12 clear.

South of Bedford is W8 to the Hendon lines, W6 south of there on the main line.

North of Kettering is W6 or W7.

So yes you could run an intermodal, as long as it didn’t have containers taller than 8’6”, had low height wagons, and wasn’t going south of Cricklewood or north of Kettering.

Clearing the route for bigger containers will be phenomenally expensive and disruptive.

Thanks Rick.

 

[59CosG95]

AIUI Beford to Kettering is now W12 clear.

South of Bedford is W8 to the Hendon lines, W6 south of there on the main line.

North of Kettering is W6 or W7.

So yes you could run an intermodal, as long as it didn’t have containers taller than 8’6”, had low height wagons, and wasn’t going south of Cricklewood or north of Kettering.

Clearing the route for bigger containers will be phenomenally expensive and disruptive.

What will the gauge clearance be on EWR?

I wonder if KO1a OLE work will also involve gauge clearance to W12 south of Bedford - unlikely, perhaps, given the intensity of the Thameslink timetable.
It would be more likely IMO that Kettering - Mkt H'boro' - Wigston gets the W12 treatment, even though Wigston North - Hinckley is only W10, and the Wigston South - Glen Parva chord is only W7.

EWR could then provide a W12 route (or at least W10, assuming that's the minimum gauge clearance) from Felixstowe to Nuneaton via a more southerly route i.e. via Kettering rather than Peterborough.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

In the new Modern Railways (Feb) it says NR is still working on plans for the upgrade of the OHLE between St Pancras and Bedford to 125mph, with no completion date set.
810s will therefore run on diesel over this section at first, which leaves only 22 miles on electric before Kettering (33 miles when the wires reach Market Harborough, which is still not formally approved).
Presumably the 810s can switch to electric south of Cricklewood where the line speed is 100mph or less, and remain on electric at the terminus.

 

[21C101]

In the new Modern Railways (Feb) it says NR is still working on plans for the upgrade of the OHLE between St Pancras and Bedford to 125mph, with no completion date set.
810s will therefore run on diesel over this section at first, which leaves only 22 miles on electric before Kettering (33 miles when the wires reach Market Harborough, which is still not formally approved).
Presumably the 810s can switch to electric south of Cricklewood where the line speed is 100mph or less, and remain on electric at the terminus.

This presumably restricts the St Pancras to Corby electrics from 110mph to 100mph too?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Jan 2021 ==

What will the gauge clearance be on EWR?

I wonder if KO1a OLE work will also involve gauge clearance to W12 south of Bedford - unlikely, perhaps, given the intensity of the Thameslink timetable.
It would be more likely IMO that Kettering - Mkt H'boro' - Wigston gets the W12 treatment, even though Wigston North - Hinckley is only W10, and the Wigston South - Glen Parva chord is only W7.

EWR could then provide a W12 route (or at least W10, assuming that's the minimum gauge clearance) from Felixstowe to Nuneaton via a more southerly route i.e. via Kettering rather than Peterborough.

EWR east of Bedford is still in believe when seen territory.

However if EWR west of Bedford has a decent gauge then that might make Gauge Enhancement worth doing north of Market Harborough. Especially as I think some of it was done before Sheffield electrification was canned and Wigston to Syston will get done as and when that is sorted for Felixtowe Nuneaton.

 

[jfowkes]

EWR could then provide a W12 route (or at least W10, assuming that's the minimum gauge clearance) from Felixstowe to Nuneaton via a more southerly route i.e. via Kettering rather than Peterborough.

EWR east of Bedford is still in believe when seen territory.

However if EWR west of Bedford has a decent gauge then that might make Gauge Enhancement worth doing north of Market Harborough. Especially as I think some of it was done before Sheffield electrification was canned and Wigston to Syston will get done as and when that is sorted for Felixtowe Nuneaton.

As I understand it, EWR will not have a north-facing connection to the MML?

 

[Mikey C]

In the new Modern Railways (Feb) it says NR is still working on plans for the upgrade of the OHLE between St Pancras and Bedford to 125mph, with no completion date set.
810s will therefore run on diesel over this section at first, which leaves only 22 miles on electric before Kettering (33 miles when the wires reach Market Harborough, which is still not formally approved).
Presumably the 810s can switch to electric south of Cricklewood where the line speed is 100mph or less, and remain on electric at the terminus.

Which seems like a waste AND a massive PR own goal when the public/media notices that the expensive new Bimodes are still running on diesel under much of the existing wiring

Surely this upgrade should have been scheduled to be done at the same time that the wires are being put up further out?

 

[59CosG95]

As I understand it, EWR will not have a north-facing connection to the MML?

You are correct, sadly!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Jan 2021 ==

This presumably restricts the St Pancras to Corby electrics from 110mph to 100mph too?

Unlikely, if that is based on speed alone. The Mk3 reg arms currently seen on the cantilevers ('shallow curve') will need to change for speeds of 200km/h and up (i.e. for 125mph, which is 201km/h), but they should be fine for 110.
Most headspan reg arms are 'deep curve' and can take greater uplift.

Post #3995 has more details.

 

[21C101]

As I understand it, EWR will not have a north-facing connection to the MML?

EWR already has a north facing connection to the MML and has had for about 30 years since Bedford to Bletchley trains were diverted to Bedford Midland?