MML Electrification: progress updates

[snowball]

I though it had been "paused"?

Perhaps you missed the un-pausing of Trans-Pennine too? Both were unpaused on 30 September, with completion pushed back to 2022 and 3.

Will economies in persuit of getting electrification "unpaused" result in economies and future designs that are "not fit for purpose"?

Trans-Pennine is being expanded in scope to include route improvements before wiring. (This was already emerging before the pause.)

The effects on the rest of the CP5 programme will emerge when Sir Peter Hendy reports. They could be massive. He is reported to be livid at having his options foreclosed in this way.

 

[Senex]

Interestingly the first was Leicester, one of the last major relay interlocking schemes where extra interlocking functions translated directly into extra cost, and also a scheme where the specification was cut to (and arguably beyond) the bone but the bi-di survived on the double track part of the MML. It has however been used only very rarely - for a long time there were various safety concerns. In over 25 years of fairly regular travel on it I don't recall ever being put "bang road".

It was very interesting to see how the bi-di did survive all the cuts -- the last of which was the removal of the Harborough re-alignment which meant that the Harborough crossovers got moved from the planned straight track north of the station to their place on the sharpish curve south of the station, this in turn leading to maintenance problems later. It always was genuine bi-di, with the same speeds and the same capacity in both directions (unlike simbids), and the section between Wigston Jn and Leicester station was freely used as a bi-di railway right from the start (and I have some interesting memories of very creative use of the facility when things were a little out of course). However, for a very long time the problems posed by no patrolman's lock-out facility meant that the section south of Wigston could not be so freely used and you would normally experience it only for planned engineering works -- and only very occasionally indeed, and usually after a long stand at a signal, to avoid a failed freight train during normal weekday working.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

Perhaps you missed the un-pausing of Trans-Pennine too? Both were unpaused on 30 September, with completion pushed back to 2022 and 3.



Trans-Pennine is being expanded in scope to include route improvements before wiring. (This was already emerging before the pause.)

The effects on the rest of the CP5 programme will emerge when Sir Peter Hendy reports. They could be massive. He is reported to be livid at having his options foreclosed in this way.

There are rumours of a cash injection over CP5 and CP6 to compensate for the inconvenience of having MML and TP electrification forced into the program.

The way it's to be presented to the public potentially will be interesting, though there are lots of graphs and statistics being released at the moment showing passenger growth and future demand, part of me thinks it's an advanced PR campaign to spin plugging NR's funding gap as some sort of additional funding being announced "because the railways keep growing".

 

[The Planner]

Bi-directional signalling in full or simplified form has been included in all the major re-signallings of two-track main lines that I can think of since about 1985.

Really? I can think of several examples where it was never even considered.

 

[asylumxl]

I've been meaning to ask...

What exactly makes Peter Hendy's opinion carry so much weight? What specific expertise does he bring to the table that those before him didn't posses?

I'm not being facetious or anything, but rather asking an honest question. As far as I am aware, there were plenty of cock-ups for TfL during his time as co missioner.

 

[ironstone11]

I've been meaning to ask...

What exactly makes Peter Hendy's opinion carry so much weight? What specific expertise does he bring to the table that those before him didn't posses?

I'm not being facetious or anything, but rather asking an honest question. As far as I am aware, there were plenty of cock-ups for TfL during his time as co missioner.

I understood that his claim to fame was primarily Crossrail.

But Crossrail isn't finished and as we saw with the Channel Tunnel, completion of tunnelling is a very different thing to creating a fully functioning operational railway.

 

[Class 170101]

The line between Marks Tey and Manningtree and onto Clacton branches was recently re-signalled. Bi-Directional signalling was only installed between Marks Tey and Colchester. I guess money was the reason for it not going to Manningtree which is particularly galling given its a main freight route.

Regards bi-di working north of Crewe is it really needed until you get to Preston given that Electric Trains will soon be able to run under their own power via Manchester and Bolton?

 

[Chris125]

I understood that his claim to fame was primarily Crossrail.

Not really - it was TfL's performance during the Olympics which earned him his knighthood.

Chris

 

[asylumxl]

Not really - it was TfL's performance during the Olympics which earned him his knighthood.

Chris

Wikipedia says it's because of how transport continued running post 7/7.

 

[ironstone11]

Wikipedia says it's because of how transport continued running post 7/7.

Judging by the above responses he is unlikely to be of much use. Educated as an economist, he is what rail doesn't want or need!

 

[Sebastian O]

Judging by the above responses he is unlikely to be of much use. Educated as an economist, he is what rail doesn't want or need!

What, ensuring they run a network that is in demand and that NR supply this?

It's not like it's a business or anything..

 

[asylumxl]

What, ensuring they run a network that is in demand and that NR supply this?

It's not like it's a business or anything..

What I'm getting at is that he is probably no more insightful than those who came before him. His appointment, his impending report, it's all theatrics to save face.

 

[QueensCurve]

Because it is do bloomin' expensive. Full bi-di is approx 50% more expensive per mile than uni-di. Given that it is used only rarely, the route would need to have rather valuable traffic to justify it, such as the WCML, ECML, and St Albans commuters

However, ETCS provides bi-di much more cheaply, basically the cost of a few signs and a more complex interlocking design.

But does the view that it is too expensive properly take account of the compensation payments to TOCs during the full life of the signalling?

And why is it used so little? In Switzerland it sees plenty of use.

How many days do not see a failed train blocking one of the two tracks on the WCML somewhere north of Crewe?

 

[Bald Rick]

But does the view that it is too expensive properly take account of the compensation payments to TOCs during the full life of the signalling?

And why is it used so little? In Switzerland it sees plenty of use.

How many days do not see a failed train blocking one of the two tracks on the WCML somewhere north of Crewe?

1) compensation payments - absolutely taken into account

2) WCML. The vast majority. And, of course, TOCs / FOCs pay NR the penalties for failed trains (although if a freight fails, it invariably ends up costing NR money).

 

[HSTEd]

Its probably used in Switzerland because it has always been installed in Switzerland.

And once something exists it tends to be used more than was projected when it was installed as it tends to change methods of working.
The improvement tends to be smaller than a simple analysis of use would suggest though as things woul dhave been done by other, slightly less efficient, methods the much of the time.

 

[DarloRich]

I've been meaning to ask...

What exactly makes Peter Hendy's opinion carry so much weight? What specific expertise does he bring to the table that those before him didn't posses?

I'm not being facetious or anything, but rather asking an honest question. As far as I am aware, there were plenty of cock-ups for TfL during his time as co missioner.

Post 7/7 transport performance in London, Transport around the Olympics and performance of London transport generally. He has a long career in transport since joining London transport as a graduate trainee in 1975. It is also said that he is close to the government/ministers.

 

[asylumxl]

Post 7/7 transport performance in London, Transport around the Olympics and performance of London transport generally. He has a long career in transport since joining London transport as a graduate trainee in 1975. It is also said that he is close to the government/ministers.

But what makes him any different to those before him? Apart from the party he supports.

I'm inclined to say that the performance was down to those below him.

 

[DarloRich]

But what makes him any different to those before him? Apart from the party he supports.

I'm inclined to say that the performance was down to those below him.

perhaps - but surely senior management is about ensuring you have in place the correct team to deliver your vision and then motivating them to ensure that vision is delivered on time, budget and to the agreed quality.

that may be the difference

 

[GRALISTAIR]

perhaps - but surely senior management is about ensuring you have in place the correct team to deliver your vision and then motivating them to ensure that vision is delivered on time, budget and to the agreed quality.

That may be the difference

exactly

 

[Chris125]

Wikipedia says it's because of how transport continued running post 7/7.

Read it again, that was a CBE.

It was only in 2013 that he received a knighthood for services to transport and the community, alongside many others who contributed to the success of the 2012 Olympics.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

But what makes him any different to those before him? Apart from the party he supports.

I'm inclined to say that the performance was down to those below him.

He seems to be very good at being able to communicate with politicians, don't think he's a party political person though - he worked with Ken Livingstone and then Boris Johnson. If he is, he's one of those rare people who can put country above party, much like Andrew Adonis (and in Andrew, we're depriving a transport company of a damn fine CEO).

 

[GRALISTAIR]

He seems to be very good at being able to communicate with politicians, don't think he's a party political person though - he worked with Ken Livingstone and then Boris Johnson. If he is, he's one of those rare people who can put country above party, much like Andrew Adonis (and in Andrew, we're depriving a transport company of a damn fine CEO).

I would have to agree.

 

[richieb1971]

I read this thread everyday I get a notice. Not seen much MML talk lately.

 

[HowardGWR]

I read this thread everyday I get a notice. Not seen much MML talk lately.

I think the resaon is that we are all awaiting the 'early November' report from the subject of this recent correspondence (Hendy that is).

 

[ExRes]

I'm inclined to say that the performance was down to those below him.

Ah, but would you then say that failure and negative performance was down to those below him ?

 

[asylumxl]

Ah, but would you then say that failure and negative performance was down to those below him ?

Yes. I doubt he has much contact with those down the line so to speak.

 

[richieb1971]

This is the 1st mile of the MML north of Bedford. The bypass bridge is almost completed by the looks of it. Leaving just Bromham Road left before it clears passage all the way to Wellingborough.

Does anyone know when work on over head wires will start in this area?

 

[IKBrunel]

Work on the GCR overbridge has begun

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=2461643&postcount=27

 

[deltic08]

Read it again, that was a CBE.

It was only in 2013 that he received a knighthood for services to transport and the community, alongside many others who contributed to the success of the 2012 Olympics.

I irritates when people are given gongs for doing the job they are paid to do and sportsmen for their own ego and adoration.

Acknowledgement of an award should be for those who give their time for the benefit of others.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

I irritates when people are given gongs for doing the job they are paid to do and sportsmen for their own ego and adoration.

Acknowledgement of an award should be for those who give their time for the benefit of others.

Or made a huge contribution to human kind.

I just cannot disagree with you. I totally agree.