MML Electrification: progress updates

[richieb1971]

I'll take a look north of Bedford later today if I can. Take a pic or two. I don't go that far north of Oakley most of the time.

 

[70014IronDuke]

I did a return trip from London to Leicester today and the current paused status is about 60 piles have been installed, approx 30 on each side of the track, these cover all four running lines starting a few miles north of Bedford, will they do anymore in the near future? who knows.
On a more positive note the four tracking north of Kettering is way under way with, I guess, about 1-2 miles installed.

Is that to be four tracks north of Sharnbrook station all the way to Glendon Nth Jcn again?

Or just the section north of Kettering? (which seems a bit strange, but I suppose you could loop freights in there more easily).

 

[edwin_m]

In all honesty I didn't even think there was 60 of them but I'll take your word for it The four tracking is indeed good news and one is hopeful that the route at Market Harborough will be straightened out in the next five years but whether anything will get done in the Leicester area and Derby is a different matter. Heaven knows when the electrification project will be re-started

Timescales for Derby remodelling are driven by the signalling which is life-expired. It would be possible to re-signal the existing layout and re-model at a later date, but this would be much more costly and I think unlikely unless NR was in really dire straits.

The Leicester area signalling (including Market Harborough) has had substantial upgrades in recent years although this hasn't changed what is visible at the trackside. As these upgrades were done before the electrification was announced, the works needed for electrification on the original timescales would probably have replaced them prematurely. In this sense a delay to the electrification could lead to a cost saving. However there is also the need for four-tracking through Leicester with grade separation at Wigston, whose timescales will mainly be driven by the need to handle increasing numbers of east-west freight trains. The work needed to deliver these changes would probably replace most of the existing signalling anyway.

So in summary I would expect Derby remodelling to be unaffected by the electrification pause, I don't really know for Leicester remodelling but if Market Harborough ever had a date it will probably go back.

 

[76020]

Is that to be four tracks north of Sharnbrook station all the way to Glendon Nth Jcn again?

Or just the section north of Kettering? (which seems a bit strange, but I suppose you could loop freights in there more easily).

The four tracking will be installed from Kettering to Corby only, please see this link.

http://www.networkrailmediacentre.c...between-corby-and-kettering-enters-next-phase

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The four tracking will be installed from Kettering to Corby only, please see this link.
http://www.networkrailmediacentre.c...between-corby-and-kettering-enters-next-phase

2-tracking to Corby, surely?

 

[Class 170101]

Four tracks from London to Kettering and two from Kettering to Corby and two from Kettering to Leicester is how I understand it.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

It's mentioned in another thread that NR might have its budget cut by 25% so there's probably no guarantee that the MML electrification won't be completely axed

 

[muddythefish]

The four tracking will be installed from Kettering to Corby only, please see this link.

http://www.networkrailmediacentre.c...between-corby-and-kettering-enters-next-phase

Reinstating the 4th track from Bedford to Kettering, and redoubling Kettering Corby surely ?

 

[edwin_m]

Reinstating the 4th track from Bedford to Kettering, and redoubling Kettering Corby surely ?

The link doesn't say anything about what might happen south of Kettering. There are now three tracks throughout between Sharnbrook and Kettering and there was a report a few months ago that options were being looked at for reinstating the fourth over some of this section. However I would guess this will be deferred as part of the "pause" or cancelled completely, since no contracts appear to have been signed and making changes here would probably involve re-signalling, which can otherwise be deferred until electrification finally happens (assuming it does within a decade or so).

 

[Philip Phlopp]

The link doesn't say anything about what might happen south of Kettering. There are now three tracks throughout between Sharnbrook and Kettering and there was a report a few months ago that options were being looked at for reinstating the fourth over some of this section. However I would guess this will be deferred as part of the "pause" or cancelled completely, since no contracts appear to have been signed and making changes here would probably involve re-signalling, which can otherwise be deferred until electrification finally happens (assuming it does within a decade or so).

This is all assuming the signalling needs to be replaced - the new equipment installed during the East Midlands resignalling should be '25kV AC OLE compatible' as it has been Network Rail policy for quite some time to ensure minimal immunisation and resignalling works are necessary in the event electrification for a route is approved.

There will need to be some works, with some immunisation work, the usual signal re-sighting and the odd movement of cabinets, cable troughs and the like, but it shouldn't need wholesale resignalling.

 

[Mugby]

I imagine that when a third track was restored between Kettering South and Harrowden a few years ago, no one ever dreamed that a fourth could possibly be required at some point in the future, another example of shortsightedness which will add considerably to expenditure.

Where was the only two-track section south of Leicester? After Market Harborough, space on the Up side indicates that there were four tracks at Braybrooke and on towards Desborough. Was it just two tracks between Wigston South and Mkt Harborough?

 

[The Planner]

There will need to be some works, with some immunisation work, the usual signal re-sighting and the odd movement of cabinets, cable troughs and the like, but it shouldn't need wholesale resignalling.

Can't be that long for things to start moving on that front though? When was the MML last done, early 80s? Always understood it as being 40 year design life.

 

[70014IronDuke]

I imagine that when a third track was restored between Kettering South and Harrowden a few years ago, no one ever dreamed that a fourth could possibly be required at some point in the future, another example of shortsightedness which will add considerably to expenditure.

Where was the only two-track section south of Leicester? After Market Harborough, space on the Up side indicates that there were four tracks at Braybrooke and on towards Desborough. Was it just two tracks between Wigston South and Mkt Harborough?

IIRC, it was two-track Wigston South to Mkt Harborough, with 2, perhaps 3 passing loops en route. I think EAst Langton was one, and another beginning with S.

EDIT: it came to me over my organic yoghurt at breakfast - it was Wistow.
yes, I know that doesn't begin with an S - but it's got a lot of s sound in it, don't it?

About 0.5m south of Mkt Harboro (forget name of box) it was four track all the way to just north of Desborough (c mp 80), paired by direction, although by the 70s I never saw the goods lines in use.

It was two-track Desborough - Glendon North Jcn (mp 75) and then four track onwards.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

This is all assuming the signalling needs to be replaced - the new equipment installed during the East Midlands resignalling should be '25kV AC OLE compatible' as it has been Network Rail policy for quite some time to ensure minimal immunisation and resignalling works are necessary in the event electrification for a route is approved.

There will need to be some works, with some immunisation work, the usual signal re-sighting and the odd movement of cabinets, cable troughs and the like, but it shouldn't need wholesale resignalling.

I remember reading that the 1980s resignalling (the "Leicester Gap") was definitely done with electrification in mind. But it was only three aspect at the time. Has this since been changed to 4 aspect? If so, I haven't heard about it. Would be abig operation.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The four tracking will be installed from Kettering to Corby only, please see this link.

http://www.networkrailmediacentre.c...between-corby-and-kettering-enters-next-phase

Yes. Thanks. That would be four tracks Kettering South Jcn to Glendon South, with a single lead on to Glendon North, I assume.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

Can't be that long for things to start moving on that front though? When was the MML last done, early 80s? Always understood it as being 40 year design life.

Invensys (now Siemens) re-did a fair amount of work 2010-2013, with new WESTLOCK equipment being installed and control being moved from Leicester PSB to EMCC Derby.

 

[The Planner]

When was West Hampstead done? That was around 1980 vintage Im sure.

 

[Bald Rick]

When was West Hampstead done? That was around 1980 vintage Im sure.

In stages 1979-1982 IIRC.

Although as it was the 'good old days' no doubt someone will pop up and say that it was installed and commissioned overnight in 20 mins by 3 blokes and a YTS trainee.

St Albans South was closed in 1980, as no doubt Mr Webb will be along shortly to confirm.

 

[ExRes]

Wrong I'm afraid, YTS didn't start until 1983

 

[edwin_m]

I imagine that when a third track was restored between Kettering South and Harrowden a few years ago, no one ever dreamed that a fourth could possibly be required at some point in the future, another example of shortsightedness which will add considerably to expenditure.

Where was the only two-track section south of Leicester? After Market Harborough, space on the Up side indicates that there were four tracks at Braybrooke and on towards Desborough. Was it just two tracks between Wigston South and Mkt Harborough?

I was a little involved with this project in the planning stages and there was certainly a view that fourth track was quite likely, so equipment was kept out of its way. This is unlike the Erewash Valley scheme of a few years previously.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Invensys (now Siemens) re-did a fair amount of work 2010-2013, with new WESTLOCK equipment being installed and control being moved from Leicester PSB to EMCC Derby.

Indeed, but nothing was done trackside. The original 3-aspect over most of the Leicester area needs upgrading to 4-aspect along with whatever changes are needed to provide adequate sighting and bring everything up to modern standards. After all that there won't be much left of the original work from the late 80s.

 

[76020]

2-tracking to Corby, surely?

Sorry for my error, yes four track from Kettering to Glendon North Junction and then two tracks from here to Corby.

 

[Mugby]

Wasn't it Glendon South Junction?

 

[76020]

Wasn't it Glendon South Junction?

I think your right so I'm wrong again!, anyway Network Rail is installing another track from Kettering to Corby.

 

[Senex]

Wasn't it Glendon South Junction?

No. The four-track main line extended to Glendon North Jn. The Kettering & Manton line, however, diverged at Glendon South Jn. Under Leicester MAS the section between Glendon South Jn and Glendon North Jn was closed completely and the junction for the Corby line was moved back to Kettering North Jn. So re-doubling of the section in question will extend from Kettering North Jn to Corby, with KNJ remaining the point at which you can cross between the Market Harborough main lines and the slow lines through Kettering station.

 

[70014IronDuke]

No. The four-track main line extended to Glendon North Jn. The Kettering & Manton line, however, diverged at Glendon South Jn. Under Leicester MAS the section between Glendon South Jn and Glendon North Jn was closed completely and the junction for the Corby line was moved back to Kettering North Jn. So re-doubling of the section in question will extend from Kettering North Jn to Corby, with KNJ remaining the point at which you can cross between the Market Harborough main lines and the slow lines through Kettering station.

Er, <cough>, surely the junction "for" the Corby line was always Kettering Sth Jcn ? You could not get from the fasts to the Corby line at Glendon South, which was only a junction on the Corby line which allowed access to/from Leicester route at Glendon North Jcn.

As a second observation, if during the MAS conversion they closed (and lifted?) Glendon South to Glendon North, then presumably they installed a new up fast to up slow at Kettering South (assuming, that is, that they retained slow lines south of Kettering South - sorry, I really don't know).

At least, they surely have done today, as (open to correction), I thought Kettering South in classic days only allowed access from the down fast to the Corby line, and up ex Corby to up fast.

I didn't think there was an up fast to up goods, or down goods to down fast - you needed to do that at Glendon South and Glendon North.

But it was a long time ago, and the grey matter does degrade ....

 

[Senex]

Er, <cough>, surely the junction "for" the Corby line was always Kettering Sth Jcn ? You could not get from the fasts to the Corby line at Glendon South, which was only a junction on the Corby line which allowed access to/from Leicester route at Glendon North Jcn.

As a second observation, if during the MAS conversion they closed (and lifted?) Glendon South to Glendon North, then presumably they installed a new up fast to up slow at Kettering South (assuming, that is, that they retained slow lines south of Kettering South - sorry, I really don't know).

At least, they surely have done today, as (open to correction), I thought Kettering South in classic days only allowed access from the down fast to the Corby line, and up ex Corby to up fast.

I didn't think there was an up fast to up goods, or down goods to down fast - you needed to do that at Glendon South and Glendon North.

But it was a long time ago, and the grey matter does degrade ....

As always, everything depends on definitions. But as far as the Midland Railway was concerned, its Kettering & Manton line began at a junction with the slow lines (only) of its Leicester & Hitchin line at Glendon South Jn. There obviously could not be a fast-lines junction because of the difference in levels.

Operationally, trains heading for Manton had to cross from the fasts to the slows at Kettering South Jn and use the slow-line platforms in Kettering station in order to be able to diverge at Glendon South. This situation changed in 1898, when a double junction from the fasts to the slows was laid in at Kettering North, so that from then until 1967 Manton-bound trains could leave the fasts north of the station.

At the end of Midland days you had a double junction fasts to slows at Kettering South Jn, a double junction slows to fasts at Kettering South, and a double junction fasts to slows at Kettering North. This lasted until 19 November 1967, when Kettering South and North SBs were closed and the connections they controlled abolished. Thus from 1967 on Kettering South Jn was the point where traffic for the Manton line had to cross fast to slow in order to be able to get to the SL-only junction at Glendon South.

What happened under Leicester MAS was a much more drastic reduction in facilities than was at first planned. The third and fourth lines were abolished between the new Harrowden Jn with the remaining single slow line (from Sharnbrook Jn) and Kettering South Jn. The two slow lines remained thence through Kettering station to Kettering Jn, where they merged into a single line. A bit more than a mile and half to the north, at Kettering North Jn, this was joined to the down main by a ladder junction, the single line continuing as the Corby line. Thus the fourth line was abolished from this point northwards and both third and fourth lines between the site of Glendon South Jn and the site of Glendon North Jn. So in operational terms the Corby single line (i.e. the Kettering & Manton line) can be accessed without reversal only via Kettering South Jn, though it does not legally or officially start at that point. The only change so far completed to that 1980s layout has been the creation of the third line between Harrowden Jn and Kettering South Jn.

 

[70014IronDuke]

As always, everything depends on definitions.
....
Operationally, trains heading for Manton had to cross from the fasts to the slows at Kettering South Jn and use the slow-line platforms in Kettering station in order to be able to diverge at Glendon South. This situation changed in 1898, when a double junction from the fasts to the slows was laid in at Kettering North, so that from then until 1967 Manton-bound trains could leave the fasts north of the station.

Aha! I hadn't realised that. Because I had seen photos of via-Manton trains crossing at Kettering Sth jcn, I had assumed that was always been the crossing point.

(I must have gone over all this in the early 60s, but was too young to remember such complexities.)

Was there a 'general' rule - or did it just depend on day-to-day regulatory conditions where the via-Manton trains crossed to/from the slows? (Of course, in some cases it might aid same-platform changes for a train to stop at a specific platform.)

At the end of Midland days you had a double junction fasts to slows at Kettering South Jn, a double junction slows to fasts at Kettering South, and a double junction fasts to slows at Kettering North. This lasted until 19 November 1967, when Kettering South and North SBs were closed and the connections they controlled abolished. Thus from 1967 on Kettering South Jn was the point where traffic for the Manton line had to cross fast to slow in order to be able to get to the SL-only junction at Glendon South.

Well, little wonder BR LM wanted to simplify that layout - must have been horribly expensive to maintain (i'd guess a lot of the turnouts were non-standard, being on curves) and in reality, Kettering Sth and Kettering North were largely duplicating the layout provided by Kettering Sth Jcn and Glendon Sth/Nth junctions, right?

I'm a bit surprised the Midland went to the expense of installing all these double junctions in the first place - I mean, Derby did not normally throw money around. I can only assume this was to have maximum operational flexibilty eg if there was a goods train on one of the slows, you did not want a passenger in a platform blocking the route - and vice versa if you had an express hard on the heels of a stopping service.

Still an extraordinary capital expenditure though, on such a short section - 4 miles? - of four track mainline.

What happened under Leicester MAS was a much more drastic reduction in facilities than was at first planned. The third and fourth lines were abolished between the new Harrowden Jn with the remaining single slow line (from Sharnbrook Jn) and Kettering South Jn.

So (just to check I've got this right), the new Harrowden Jcn (new in the 1980s, at least) was, and presumably still is from what you write below, is a ladder from the slow line, across the up fast and onto the down fast?

The two slow lines remained thence through Kettering station to Kettering Jn, where they merged into a single line. A bit more than a mile and half to the north, at Kettering North Jn, this was joined to the down main by a ladder junction, the single line continuing as the Corby line.

So today, if a train from Desboro needs to be switched to the slows through Kettering, it uses this ladder junction, I assume? I guess the tracks might be straight here (must be about MP 73 1/2?), so they could use standard turnouts for the ladder.

Otherwise, the next possibility to cross to the slow would be Harrowden Jcn.

Thus the fourth line was abolished from this point northwards and both third and fourth lines between the site of Glendon South Jn and the site of Glendon North Jn. So in operational terms the Corby single line (i.e. the Kettering & Manton line) can be accessed without reversal only via Kettering South Jn, though it does not legally or officially start at that point. The only change so far completed to that 1980s layout has been the creation of the third line between Harrowden Jn and Kettering South Jn.

thank you for the most comprehensive answer, Mr Senex - you should write a book

 

[Senex]

(1) Was there a 'general' rule - or did it just depend on day-to-day regulatory conditions where the via-Manton trains crossed to/from the slows?

(2) I'm a bit surprised the Midland went to the expense of installing all these double junctions in the first place ....

(3)So (just to check I've got this right), the new Harrowden Jcn (new in the 1980s, at least) was, and presumably still is from what you write below, is a ladder from the slow line, across the up fast and onto the down fast?

(4) So today, if a train from Desboro needs to be switched to the slows through Kettering, it uses this ladder junction, I assume? I guess the tracks might be straight here (must be about MP 73 1/2?), so they could use standard turnouts for the ladder.

Otherwise, the next possibility to cross to the slow would be Harrowden Jcn.

(1) I think it depended on the needs of the timetable (avoiding conflicting moves). Slightly faster, of course, to cross at Kettering North.

(2) I think from a modern perspective an awful lot of layouts of the late pre-Grouping years (most of which survives unchanged until the retrenchments of BR) were unnecessarily generous.

(3) Just so.

(4) Yes, and yes. Kettering North Jn is at 74 miles on straight track (Kettering Jn is at 72¼ miles).

 

[edwin_m]

In the past the Slow lines of the MML were actually Goods lines over most of their length, worked by permissive block and often jammed with nose-to-tail coal trains if the evidence of things like accident reports is to be believed. This must have made Kettering something of a bottleneck, especially after competition from the Great Central forced the Midland to run more fast trains via Corby and Melton.

Therefore both lines northwards would have had fast passenger and slow freight trains not to mention anything in between, all accommodated on double track in each case. So there must have been a need to hold northbound slow trains awaiting a path at Kettering (probably south of it) and get southbound goods out of the way of approaching passenger trains. The multiple junctions at Kettering were probably an attempt to manage this difficult situation more effectively and the 1898 date quoted by Senex is, probably not by coincidence, the year before the opening of the Great Central London Extension.

 

[richieb1971]

I must have misunderstood one of the earlier posts that stated that 4 tracks were re-instated north of Sharnbrook. Took a look yesterday and its definitely still 3. Perhaps the poster was talking about 4 tracks north of Bedford but south of Sharnbrook?

This URL makes for an interesting read -

http://www.railmagazine.com/operations/freight/freight-fights-capacity-constraints

I never thought that freight trains need to run to time. RTT shows that most freights are either early or late but never run close to time like a passenger working.

 

[Senex]

In the past the Slow lines of the MML were actually Goods lines over most of their length, worked by permissive block and often jammed with nose-to-tail coal trains if the evidence of things like accident reports is to be believed. This must have made Kettering something of a bottleneck, especially after competition from the Great Central forced the Midland to run more fast trains via Corby and Melton.

They were indeed. The slow lines ended at Harpenden Jn right up to the start of the St Pancras - Bedford DMU scheme. GLs from there, except through Bedford station, between Irchester Jn and Wellingborough, and from Kettering South to Glendon South.

As for the Kettering & Manton and the Melton & Nottingham lines, these were in the first place built for the coal traffic, and if you look at the gradient profiles you'll see that along with the Wymington Deviation lines they provided a much easier southbound route than did the main line. The decision to start using them for fast passenger services seems to have been taken quite late on, but from their opening a new fast London to Bradford service (four trains a day each way from memory) began, bringing about the classic Midland split between Manchester trains and most of the Scotland trains via Leicester and Breadford trains via Nottingham. This was already fifteen years before the Great Central opened, though that event certainly did spur the Midland to do things.

 

[John Webb]

In stages 1979-1982 IIRC.

Although as it was the 'good old days' no doubt someone will pop up and say that it was installed and commissioned overnight in 20 mins by 3 blokes and a YTS trainee.

St Albans South was closed in 1980, as no doubt Mr Webb will be along shortly to confirm.

2nd Dec 1979 for signalling; the train announcer moved out early in 1980 to the station building, when the box became disused.