MK4 Grounding C1998

[Crossforth]

Hey Guys

I was reading in another thread about when the 321/9s visited the Cross due to the grounding of the MK4s around 1998.

Does anyone have any details on why it happened and for how long and what other substitutes were used?

Thanks in advance.

 

[455driver]

It was very soon after a crash in Germany (Eschede) when a wheel tyre disintegrated and demolished a bridge that fell onto the train.
Link-
http://www.google.co.uk/images?hl=e...esult_group&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CCMQsAQwAA

WARNING VERY UPSETTING PICTURES

Shortly afterwards a mark 4 set was derailed due to the same thing and the decision was taken to ground the whole fleet for checks.
The result is that anything and everything was drafted in to try and run some semblance of a service

 

[GNERman]

Hey Guys

I was reading in another thread about when the 321/9s visited the Cross due to the grounding of the MK4s around 1998.

Does anyone have any details on why it happened and for how long and what other substitutes were used?

Thanks in advance.

the whole fleet was grounded, GNER got the 3 321/9's from Northern Spirit to run Leeds services, they also borrowed a 2 317 Sets from WAGN to run to York and Newcastle, with the HST's working to Scotland.

It took over a week to get all sets running again.

 

[ainsworth74]

GNER got the 3 321/9's from Northern Spirit to run Leeds services

Blimey, wouldn't fancy doing KGX to Leeds on 321's! Must have been a bit different for the drivers, compared to doing the usual Donny-Leeds route

 

[Crossforth]

I think I could have been abit difficult running a 4 car commuter train instead of a 9 car intercity

 

[ainsworth74]

For the passengers it must have been a nightmare, no first class on the /9s, and for that matter I imagine the catering must have suffered a bit as well! Still I suppose its good to see the railways pulling to gether to get somesort of service put together even if it wasn't great.

 

[rail-britain]

The derailment at Sandy
It just shows you how little different companies actually understood what effect high speed trains had on their rolling stock and track
Followed within a few years by the Hatfield derailiment and subsequent accident

 

[yorksrob]

Blimey, wouldn't fancy doing KGX to Leeds on 321's! Must have been a bit different for the drivers, compared to doing the usual Donny-Leeds route

Would have loved to have done that run on a 308 though !

 

[Crossforth]

Would have loved to have done that run on a 308 though !

Hell Yeah

 

[O L Leigh]

they also borrowed a 2 317 Sets from WAGN to run to York and Newcastle.

Now THAT is a long drag on a pair of commuter EMU's. Never mind the punters, that must have been murder for the driver.

That certainly explains why I've seen pics of a pair of Cl317/1's at Newcastle Central.

O L Leigh

 

[boing_uk]

That certainly explains why I've seen pics of a pair of Cl317/1's at Newcastle Central.

O L Leigh

From this thread

Almost correct.

What happend after Sandy was the HSTs operated a 125mph service between Kings Cross and Newcastle, the obvious exceptions being those HSTs heading south from Aberdeen/Inverness.

Some 91s+MkIVs operated a 80mph service between Kings Cross and the north.

Northern Spirit provided stock to connect into these. A pair of 156s with NS and GNER crews did a couple of Newcastle-Edinburgh returns. Plus a 321/9 did a Leeds-London return.

Also a pair of WAGN 365s did a London-York return. This started out as a London-Leeds service, but en-route some one rememberd 365s wern't cleared for Doncaster-Leeds so they were sent to York instead.

No 317s were hired in on that day.

For the record, the photo of the 317s at Newcastle, it was a staff special for Hornesy depot staff.

And said picture.... dated 1993.

 

[O L Leigh]

Not so sure about that...

No date admittedly, but note the Prism Rail logos so definately post-privatisation.
http://tims-train-photos.fotopic.net/p5339096.html

OK, so not Newcastle. I'm still trying to locate those pics.

O L Leigh

 

[ungreat]

Or..it may be something so simple as WAGN were looking to run to Doncaster,and recruited drivers in anticipation of this,and ran one or two route video filming trains.I know because I have a copy of the video!

 

[O L Leigh]

Then it would appear we shall never know for sure what those units are doing at Donny. The photographer seems to think they are in service covering for a GNER service and, as he was there, I'm inclined to believe him. But then maybe he's got it wrong.

O L Leigh

 

[ungreat]

Depends on the date of the photo..anytime around 98/99 it may have been a route learning train..prior to that,no idea

 

[O L Leigh]

Depends on the date of the photo..anytime around 98/99 it may have been a route learning train..prior to that,no idea

No dates given, so we're in the realms of guesswork. The problem though is that the Mk4 fleet was grounded at about the same time as the WAGN route learners.

Blimey, wouldn't fancy doing KGX to Leeds on 321's! Must have been a bit different for the drivers, compared to doing the usual Donny-Leeds route

Soon after electrification a number of brand new Cl321's were used to cover Leeds services. I don't recall the reasons behind this, but I guess there must have been a shortage of IC stock.

O L Leigh

 

[delt1c]

Always thought a railtour Kings cross to Edinburgh with 317/6 and 317/7 would be a great tour. Imagine 317's given a real chance to show what they could do on the ECML and Stanstead Express stock at Edinburgh

 

[gordonthemoron]

DB do tours around Munich with a preserved 1972 Olympic S-Bahn. Must take ages to get anywhere as it has a top speed of about 50mph

 

[Crossforth]

Always thought a railtour Kings cross to Edinburgh with 317/6 and 317/7 would be a great tour. Imagine 317's given a real chance to show what they could do on the ECML and Stanstead Express stock at Edinburgh

Lol, sign me up

 

[delt1c]

Lol, sign me up

Any rail tour operators watching this thread , please note.

 

[Aictos]

Yes but would people prefer the 317/7s as originally planned for the Stansted Express after the 322s went or a mix of 317/1s and 317/6s?

If one was done, what would the calling points be like:

Kings Cross - Hertford North - Stevenage - Peterborough - York - Newcastle - Edinburgh?
Using Hertford North instead of Potters Bar, would be interesting to see a mix of liveries!

 

[KingBBoogaloo]

I can help but think that if those 317s at Doncaster were opperating a service to London they would have Kings Cross on the blind, not Special.

 

[Crossforth]

Possibly going north?

 

[455driver]

http://tims-train-photos.fotopic.net/p5339096.html

The 317s at Doncaster are going south and we are looking at the back of the train, so it would have had "special" for the northbound run which probably just got left up for the return journey with Kings Cross on the front.

 

[43167]

I remember it well.The 321's in singles and wedged out (not surprising), 317's in pairs with loads of room. They were driven by Northern Spirit/WAGN men with GNER men as route conductors.

Did 2 pairs of the 317's Leeds-Wakefield.

Knock on Effect for Northern Spirit was a 144 & 308 covering the Leeds-Doncaster locals.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

There was at least one 8 car 321/9 working from King's Cross to Leeds - see the photos I posted in the rare pictures thread.


Post #45 here: http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=29654&page=3

 

[Tim]

Not so sure about that...

No date admittedly, but note the Prism Rail logos so definately post-privatisation.
http://tims-train-photos.fotopic.net/p5339096.html

OK, so not Newcastle. I'm still trying to locate those pics.

O L Leigh

Hi

Thought I would comment about the shot of the 317's at Doncaster they were indeed covering for the mark 4's when they were taken out of service. I can't remeber how far they went north, or the precise date of my photo with out looking it up.
Wish I had also photographed the 321/9's as well but back then I was more interested in getting shots of different liveries or any freight.
Did feel a bit cheated headed over to Donny to get some 91's for the year only to get 317's instead.
Glad my fotopic site was of use.

Tim.

 

[O L Leigh]

Hi Tim!!

Welcome to the board. Thanks for providing the additional information. Much appreciated.

O L Leigh

 

[ChrisCooper]

From a driving point of view, the major difference with a 313, and other resistor or tap changer controlled units, compared to those with solid state control is that drivers can't notch down, they have to shut off power totally and reapply. Another thing with resistor control is that notch 1 can't be held for more than a short time as it leaves the resistors in circuit, which can cause them to overheat. Other than that, the control equipment makes very little difference to the driver. Pretty much all EMUs use a 4 notch power controller, the only real difference being that some have a built in dead mans handle, some don't. Oviously performance characteristics will be quite different between some types, depending on things like length and top speed. I doubt there is much between a 317 and a 321 though in terms of performance, especailly when differences between individuals of the same class are taken into account.

 

[A60K]

Did feel a bit cheated headed over to Donny to get some 91's for the year only to get 317's instead.

I can understand, given how new the 91s were at the time - but what you would give for something similar today!