Mixup over Railcard

[Alexel]

Hi all,
Yesterday I was in a mix up regarding my railcard and have been told a letter is being sent to my house, which is really stressing me out.
I got the train from London Liverpool Street to Stansted Airport on my young persons railcard. When the ticket was inspected at the Stansted I realised my railcard has expired the month before. I had not realised this as I never usually take the train and usually drive everywhere.
In addition, the inspector who looked at my railcard thought that I was trying to deceive him by covering up the date. This is because my railcard was at the bottom of my wallet and I had been holding lots or other cards in my fingers as well as my passport and phone etc and I think that he believed that I was trying to get by without a valid railcard - which I had not realised had expired.

He passed me on to his colleague who said that the situation has 'escalated' me that I could not pay the penalty fare there and then (which i repeatedly offered to do) and had to wait for a letter to come to my house which I had to respond to.

This is really unfortunate as I was honestly not trying to con anyone at all but I realise that my railcard is out of date. I am happy to pay any sort of fine in order to avoid court and definitely to avoid a criminal record!

I was just wondering if anyone had any advice about how to respond to the letter in order to avoid going to court and how to try and explain the mix up ? I have never had any issues of this kind before and I've never been in any trouble.

Many thanks,
Alex

 

[cuccir]

It is likely that you've got a slightly stressful wait ahead of you.

When the train company write to you, respond with a factual and apologetic letter, offering to pay the fare owed and any costs incurred in investigating the event. All being well, they will reply with an offer to settle out of court. Avoid too much explanation - stick to the simple "I had not realized that it had expired". The more you say, the more it adds confusion (eg if you drive everywhere, why did you have a railcard?!?). Just stick to the simple facts and apologize.

It is unlikely you'll get anything quicker than the next 2 weeks, and possible that it could be a couple of months.

 

[jon0844]

Yes, the bit about usually driving is bound to raise questions.

I could perhaps understand someone travelling regularly forgetting to check the date, if the card wasn't bought at an obvious time (start of year, start of term etc), but if you rarely travel then it strikes me you'd be checking for your railcard and almost certainly checking if it is still in date.

 

[Alexel]

Many thanks for your swift responses.
Should I include the fact that I never had any intention to deceive the inspector and that he misinterpreted what I was doing as my hands were so full ?

Also would his word against mine be enough to gets a criminal record ? I am very anxious about the possibility of going to court and even more so about a criminal record, especially as this really was just an honest mistake that was misjudged as me trying to evade a fare.

Thanks for all your help,
Alex

 

[broadgage]

It is not really "his word against mine" since it seems beyond doubt that you did not have a valid railcard.

This is clearly wrong, but not a particularly serious offence, and as others have suggested, you may well be able to settle out of court.
Reply promptly when you get the letter, apologise and offer to pay the outstanding fare and for the railways costs.

Settling out of court wont give you a criminal record.

 

[cuccir]

Many thanks for your swift responses.
Should I include the fact that I never had any intention to deceive the inspector and that he misinterpreted what I was doing as my hands were so full ?

Also would his word against mine be enough to gets a criminal record ? I am very anxious about the possibility of going to court and even more so about a criminal record, especially as this really was just an honest mistake that was misjudged as me trying to evade a fare.

Thanks for all your help,
Alex

I would not mention the whole holding the railcard thing, no. I think something along the lines that states that you did not intend to evade the fare, and that you incorrectly believed your railcard to be in date.

With regards to a criminal record: we are a long way from that at the moment. Even if they decided to prosecute, they would be more likely to use legislation (the 'Byelaws') that is broken by having an invalid ticket, but does not require evidence of intent to evade a fare. Prosecutions under the Byelaws do not leave a criminal record, except on 'enhanced' DBS checks. But again: we are still some way from that point and unless there are further circumstances that you're not telling us, there should be opportunities to end this before then.

 

[gray1404]

I don't know why the ticket inspector had to focus on saying you hid your railcard. Their comments are not helpful and totally unfounded. What evidence did he have that you were hiding the date on it really.

This is exactly the sort of situation for which a PF should be issued. It is a shame that the TOC employees have decided to make a bigger deal of it then it is. It just costs everyone more and achieves nothing for anyone. Issuing a PF would have been a better outcome for all concerned and less costly to the TOC - they would have earned £33.20 on top of their revenue already from the discounted ticket held.

 

[najaB]

I don't know why the ticket inspector had to focus on saying you hid your railcard. Their comments are not helpful and totally unfounded.

Except that holding the railcard such as the date is hidden is exactly what someone who was fare-dodging would do.

What evidence did he have that you were hiding the date on it really.

How about the fact that he couldn't see the date because the OP's fingers were in the way?

 

[jon0844]

If a date was covered and then it turned out the card had expired, it would seem suspicious even if totally coincidental.

I've always shown my cards completely openly, so if there was any error it would be noticed. Of course openly showing an expired date could be a clever bluff on the basis that the confidence might trick the inspector...!

 

[gray1404]

If anyone can't see the full information on the ticket or railcard they should inspect it more closely. The inspector is reading into the positioning of the OPs fingers too much. They should not be making such statements though so as to accuse the OP of hiding something on purpose because they do not know that.

 

[AlterEgo]

If anyone can't see the full information on the ticket or railcard they should inspect it more closely. The inspector is reading into the positioning of the OPs fingers too much. They should not be making such statements though so as to accuse the OP of hiding something on purpose because they do not know that.

I don't think anyone is in a position to determine that.

Certainly, if I was an inspector, someone's fingers obscuring the date on a railcard would seem suspicious, especially if it then turned out the railcard was expired. It's not a natural way to hold the railcard.

The RPI is entitled to write up the OP if he reasonably believes the matter can't be discharged effectively with a Penalty Fare.

 

[Alexel]

I would not mention the whole holding the railcard thing, no. I think something along the lines that states that you did not intend to evade the fare, and that you incorrectly believed your railcard to be in date.

With regards to a criminal record: we are a long way from that at the moment. Even if they decided to prosecute, they would be more likely to use legislation (the 'Byelaws') that is broken by having an invalid ticket, but does not require evidence of intent to evade a fare. Prosecutions under the Byelaws do not leave a criminal record, except on 'enhanced' DBS checks. But again: we are still some way from that point and unless there are further circumstances that you're not telling us, there should be opportunities to end this before then.

Many thanks again for your help. I believe that the fact that the inspector thought I was trying to cover up my date has got me to this point - should I address that I was in no way trying to cover it up in the letter? Or would it be better to keep it simple and just apologise and offer to pay costs etc.

I am very keen to get the wording of my letter right - if I were to send you a draft would you possibly be able have a look through it ?

Thanks

 

[najaB]

I am very keen to get the wording of my letter right - if I were to send you a draft would you possibly be able have a look through it ?

If you post a draft with all personal information removed I'm sure we'll be able to give you useful advice.

 

[cuccir]

I believe that the fact that the inspector thought I was trying to cover up my date has got me to this point - should I address that I was in no way trying to cover it up in the letter? Or would it be better to keep it simple and just apologise and offer to pay costs etc.

Part of the reason for suggesting not mentioning it is that you don't know what the inspector has written in his report. For all you know, he mentioned it to you but then decided it was too circumstantial to include. Or he forgot to write it down. If you mention it, then there is a chance that someone reading your letter thinks "hmm, something funny going on here" and decides that maybe your story is a bit dodgy. In Shakespeare's words, "The lady doth protest too much, methinks".

It would be wise to emphasize that there was no intent to deceive, but you can say this without starting to include a load of stuff about the position of your fingers...

 

[Joe Paxton]

I don't think anyone is in a position to determine that.

Certainly, if I was an inspector, someone's fingers obscuring the date on a railcard would seem suspicious, especially if it then turned out the railcard was expired. It's not a natural way to hold the railcard.

The RPI is entitled to write up the OP if he reasonably believes the matter can't be discharged effectively with a Penalty Fare.

I agree.

I think the other advice to the OP is good - don't mention the whole fingers issue.

Do make it to the point, rather than a lengthy essay. Do express remorse and apologise, and say you have learnt your lesson.

 

[Alexel]

Many thanks for all your responses so far have been so helpful !
Here is a potential draft letter - please not I have not actually received a letter from the rail company yet but am anxious to get my response in order so I can send it off without delay.

Dear Eastern Railways,
On Friday 29th July I bought a ticket from London Liverpool Street to Stansted Airport with my Young Persons Railcard. This railcard had actually expired in June, however I had not realised this and only did realise when my ticket was inspected at Stansted.

I would like to sincerely apologise for my wrongdoing in booking a ticket without a valid railcard. I realise that I am deeply in the wrong but I never had any intention of attempting to evade any fare. I simply had not realised that my railcard was invalid, however this is no excuse and I sincerely apologise for wronging the company. I deeply regret my actions and lack of forethought for not previously checking to see if my railcard was valid. I have definitely learnt my lesson.

I am very willing to pay a full penalty fare as well as any costs that you may have incurred in investigating this incident.

I have left out any bits about wanting to avoid court - is this wise? Any tips and advice on how this could be improved would be much appreciated

 

[najaB]

I have left out any bits about wanting to avoid court - is this wise? Any tips and advice on how this could be improved would be much appreciated

It's more or less okay, one minor point is that it's not a Penalty Fare at this stage. It would be more accurate to say that you want to pay the correct fare for your journey.

 

[Alexel]

It's more or less okay, one minor point is that it's not a Penalty Fare at this stage. It would be more accurate to say that you want to pay the correct fare for your journey.

Understood, thanks. Is there anything else I should include that could help my case?

Also how does it work now - will someone use my letter to judge whether or not to summon me to court ?

Many thanks again

 

[6Gman]

I don't know why the ticket inspector had to focus on saying you hid your railcard. Their comments are not helpful and totally unfounded. What evidence did he have that you were hiding the date on it really.

This is exactly the sort of situation for which a PF should be issued. It is a shame that the TOC employees have decided to make a bigger deal of it then it is. It just costs everyone more and achieves nothing for anyone. Issuing a PF would have been a better outcome for all concerned and less costly to the TOC - they would have earned £33.20 on top of their revenue already from the discounted ticket held.

The Ticket Inspector was there, we weren't.

 

[cuccir]

Also how does it work now - will someone use my letter to judge whether or not to summon me to court ?

Short answer: Yes.

Longer answer:
Eastern Railways has the options of: prosecuting you; giving you the opportunity of settling with them out of court; not proceeding further with this case.

To decide which they'll do, they'll look at the evidence that they have. The core elements of this will be the inspector's report and your letter. Someone in the prosecutions team will look at these and evaluate whether the company is better off using this evidence to try and prosecute you, or to make an offer to settle out of court. To do this, they'll consider things such as:
* The likelihood of getting a conviction under the different legislation available to them.
* Whether you seem genuine in your claims of having made a mistake and your intention to not do this again
* Whether there is any evidence that this is part of a wider pattern of offending, particularly focusing on whether these is a history of prior contact with the company over fare evasion
* The amount that they will be able to reasonably demand as an out of court settlement

That evaluation process might be more or less long: it may follow a 'tick-box' approach, or it may be more considered. The letter is a key part of it, but they'll also look at things such as the inspector's report, the value of the ticket, etc etc. There may be other internal policies that influence their decision.