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Mixed freight

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L&Y Robert

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I look at the webcam at Plattling (Bavaria) quite often, and see long mixed freight trains come into the reception loops there, from whence they are shunted into new trains for departure to different destinations. We used to do that in the UK. I remember the "new" hump yards built at Tyne, Tinsley and so-on, equipped with state of the art retarders, automatic siding selection and wot-not. Even Rose-Grove (the stamping-ground of my youth) had a marshalling yard. But we don't seem to run mixed freight trains in the UK now. If so, why not? But is that really the case? Is it all train-loads now? What happens at Dollands Moor yard?
 
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jopsuk

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mixed freight only works over long distances, basically. Over short distances, the time spent marshalling means that it becomes very uncompetitive versus road. Of course, container is all "mixed freight", but other than that, bulk trains are what works on an island this size.
 

HSTEd

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Hump Yards did not survive the transition from Vacuum Braked to the Air Braked Network IIRC.

Also what jopsuk said.
 

ChiefPlanner

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Correct - I think Toton was the last working hump yard circa 1985. Mixed freights - aka Speedlinik in the UK died in 1991 as a national service - though some mixed workings still exist for specialised traffics (like the MOD) , basically marsahlling yards cost money and delay traffic, thoguh the modern equivalent is a Freigthliner / Intermodal terminal - doing boxes not wagons.
 

dysonsphere

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I think there is a few semi mixed freight about, as in 6 of this 8 of this and 6 of this but that's about it.
 

Welshman

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Politically, the death-knell for mixed freight was sounded in the 1960s, when the obligation of being the national carrier was removed from the railways.

Until then, the nationalised railway was obliged to carry whatever cargo was offering, and in whatever size of load. Hence almost every station had its goods yard for picking-up and dropping-off the odd wagon or two and the daily pick-up goods would meander along, shunting the yards and picking-up wagons here and there, taking them to a major centre for re-marshalling. A local farmer might ring-up the day before, saying he would be bringing cattle for transport to market the following day, and it was the yard shunter's job to ensure sufficient empty wagons were in situ. Also odd wagons would be dropped-off at the yards, for example conveying coal, which would be transferred into motor vehicles via the coal drops, which were often a prominent feature of the yards, by the local coal merchants, who often had their offices at the yard.

This, and the large workforce involved in loading, labelling and invoicing, disappeared overnight when the railways could then pick and choose what they wanted to carry and in what bulk. And they moved to liner trains, carrying in bulk from point "a" to point "b".

Ironically, the need for large marshalling yards such as Tinsley and Healey Mills, was disappearing almost as they were being built.
 
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But we don't seem to run mixed freight trains in the UK now.

You say that, we do get the odd one or two. An example is the 6X52 Portbury automotive to Mossend loaded cars I've filmed passing my local station with BZA steel coil waggons and one of those international steel wagons. There is a video on YouTube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLkVQdpivlM where it has the loaded car wagons and then china clay tanks and VGA ferry wagons. On Thursday it ran with the car wagons, SSA scrap wagons and two National Power hoppers. Also the 6M60 Exeter Bescot has run with a crane in it.
 

RichmondCommu

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mixed freight only works over long distances, basically. Over short distances, the time spent marshalling means that it becomes very uncompetitive versus road. Of course, container is all "mixed freight", but other than that, bulk trains are what works on an island this size.

The Channel Tunnel was supposed to help with this. However sadly a ban on chemicals, a grossly inefficient SNCF Fret, the cost of using the thing and competition from the North Sea ports put a stop to this. In terms of rail freight the tunnel has been a huge disappointment.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
You say that, we do get the odd one or two. An example is the 6X52 Portbury automotive to Mossend loaded cars I've filmed passing my local station with BZA steel coil waggons and one of those international steel wagons. There is a video on YouTube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLkVQdpivlM where it has the loaded car wagons and then china clay tanks and VGA ferry wagons. On Thursday it ran with the car wagons, SSA scrap wagons and two National Power hoppers. Also the 6M60 Exeter Bescot has run with a crane in it.

Thanks for posting this video, really interesting viewing. I'm glad that this service is still running as it certainly seems to buck the trend!
 

LouJ

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Just back from a visit to Hannover and Hamburg in Germany. Marshalling yards still thrive with plenty of mixed freight. The yards at Maschen (Hamburg) and Seelze (Hannover) were busy humping wagons on Saturdays and Sundays - incredible! There are other very large yards at other key points on the network handling wagon load traffic. Both of these yards also have considerable track for intermodals too.

Traffic through Hamburg on Thursday 20th June was running at around 24 freights an hour with about 6 mixed freights in this total. Freight through Seelze in Hannover was reaching up to 18 an hour with four or five mixed freights in this total!

Volume of traffic is the key to the operation of large yards making them economically viable. Remember German Railways have just ordered 400+ new locos to cover increasing traffic and the scrapping of ageing locos.

Germany also benefits from being an industrial success with car plants turning out new cars by the thousand. Car plants need steel. Steel needs iron ore and coal. Its a vicious circle that fell apart in the UK when industrial production declined. In addition there is considerable petro-chemical traffic.

If you want to see freight being humped then visit one of these yards. Perhaps 6 or 8 (or more) shunters busy round the clock. Impressive.
 

HSTEd

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The only way railfreight could hope to be viable again is if all new industrial units and large supermarkets had to have a rail spur as a condition for receiving planning permission.
You would then also have to ensure that lorry drivers were somehow prevented from parking up in random lay-bys at night to avoid paying to use a registered lorry park that costs money. (You could probably do this by saying that only rest hours spent at the driver's home address or at a registered lorry park counted as rest hours).

All that would require lots of money and taking on the road haulage lobby, so it isn't going to happen.
 

HSTEd

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That seems to be an awful lot of track-work for not many wagons.
 

LouJ

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That seems to be an awful lot of track-work for not many wagons.

I guess that was taken when it was relatively quiet. The picture doesn't do justice to the traffic volumes through the yard.

The size of the yards is enormous - if you were to make a model of them in OOn gauge you would need a room 300 feet x 30 feet to fit in all the track.
 
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