Missold tickets for wheelchair user

[Watershed]

A couple of years ago my mother was given a hospital appointment at Moorfields in London and, as she was unable to travel other than in a wheelchair, this was the appropriate discount for her and her carer. There was no way my mother was going to be travelling enough to warrant attempting to buy a railcard. I am pleased to say that her local station had no problems in issuing the tickets with the discount. However, I would also note that during nearly 20 years of involvement with selling tickets at a major London terminal I never sold a ticket with such a discount.

I would imagine that is largely a result of it being as good as unadvertised*, rather than because of a lack of demand. If it were sold online and/or by default to passengers presenting in a wheelchair then sales might be rather higher.

*Yes, it's on NRE if you search for it - but who would? It might as well have been on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying Beware of the Leopard

 

[Starmill]

A couple of years ago my mother was given a hospital appointment at Moorfields in London and, as she was unable to travel other than in a wheelchair, this was the appropriate discount for her and her carer. There was no way my mother was going to be travelling enough to warrant attempting to buy a railcard. I am pleased to say that her local station had no problems in issuing the tickets with the discount. However, I would also note that during nearly 20 years of involvement with selling tickets at a major London terminal I never sold a ticket with such a discount.

I guess people making journeys on long distance trains to and from London (except if they were going to Stevenage maybe!) are very likely to have paid for the Disabled Railcard and booked an Advance anyway, as that'd be cheaper.

Apparently it is for flows where SDRs have been abolished as part of the LNER sham trial. But not for flows where there simply isn't an SDR.

I wonder whether the refusal to offer the 50% discount in advance of travel is compliant with the Equality Act, in view of the fact that you have to make a wheelchair reservation to guarantee travel on some services, and the only way of making sure that this is still available on your preferred train is to book ahead of time. I'm not an expert on it but this would seem to be a case of indirect discrimination as a minimum.

The solution to this is supposed to be that the assistance at the station and the wheelchair / companion reservations are available to be made without a ticket in exceptional circumstances such as this one. The conductor will then issue the ticket on the train. Obviously that is a poor solution as it may leave the customer feeling an extra burden, also it means if someone else is trying to arrange to pay for the ticket on behalf of the passenger they need to either physically be there or they need to provide them with cash, but if they wish to exercise their right to travel with those tickets they should be permitted to do so.

 

[Wallsendmag]

A couple of years ago my mother was given a hospital appointment at Moorfields in London and, as she was unable to travel other than in a wheelchair, this was the appropriate discount for her and her carer. There was no way my mother was going to be travelling enough to warrant attempting to buy a railcard. I am pleased to say that her local station had no problems in issuing the tickets with the discount. However, I would also note that during nearly 20 years of involvement with selling tickets at a major London terminal I never sold a ticket with such a discount.

I sold a few back in the day but they were by no means common

 

[LowLevel]

I guess people making journeys on long distance trains to and from London (except if they were going to Stevenage maybe!) are very likely to have paid for the Disabled Railcard and booked an Advance anyway, as that'd be cheaper.

The solution to this is supposed to be that the assistance at the station and the wheelchair / companion reservations are available to be made without a ticket in exceptional circumstances such as this one. The conductor will then issue the ticket on the train. Obviously that is a poor solution as it may leave the customer feeling an extra burden, also it means if someone else is trying to arrange to pay for the ticket on behalf of the passenger they need to either physically be there or they need to provide them with cash, but if they wish to exercise their right to travel with those tickets they should be permitted to do so.

Not a reason not to do it but I'd be a bit wary of pushing it out there too much. One thing that has happened with a few regular customers I've had once they've realised this discount exists is that whereas previously they used to transfer to a seat and fold their chair, they now insist on staying in their chair and specifically requesting the discounted ticket as a result. They are quite open about it.

On most trains this isn't an issue as demand rarely exceeds supply of spaces on local services where these tickets are generally used but on occasion I've had to reduce access to someone unable to leave their chair because the spaces are occupied with people who choose not to - and yes, I've tried exercising my discretion but as I was told directly on one occasion, they weren't getting out of their chair in case we stopped giving the discount in future. That has only been an issue on one particular route I work with extremely high seasonal demand for the wheelchair spaces.

 

[Starmill]

Not a reason not to do it but I'd be a bit wary of pushing it out there too much. One thing that has happened with a few regular customers I've had once they've realised this discount exists is that whereas previously they used to transfer to a seat and fold their chair, they now insist on staying in their chair and specifically requesting the discounted ticket as a result. They are quite open about it.

On most trains this isn't an issue as demand rarely exceeds supply of spaces on local services where these tickets are generally used but on occasion I've had to reduce access to someone unable to leave their chair because the spaces are occupied with people who choose not to - and yes, I've tried exercising my discretion but as I was told directly on one occasion, they weren't getting out of their chair in case we stopped giving the discount in future. That has only been an issue on one particular route I work with extremely high seasonal demand for the wheelchair spaces.

Sadly you're right. If the customer books assistance on a route like that you'd hope the assisted travel team would suggest road transport for someone remaining in the wheelchair rather than risking the spaces being full. Unfortunately if the customer doesn't like road transport (say, because they know that the taxis provided by the likes of cmac are so poor at following the law... ), or if lots of unbooked assists appear for the same train, then there is very little that could possibly be done.

Historically one of the people using a wheelchair would have just travelled in the vestibule. Nowadays though this is really frowned on for sensible reasons. Of course there are routes where that wouldn't even work, unless some people standing were willing to vacate and travel on the next train.

 

[redreni]

It might as well have been on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying Beware of the Leopard

That's the display department!

 

[Wallsendmag]

I would imagine that is largely a result of it being as good as unadvertised*, rather than because of a lack of demand. If it were sold online and/or by default to passengers presenting in a wheelchair then sales might be rather higher.

*Yes, it's on NRE if you search for it - but who would? It might as well have been on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying Beware of the Leopard

How did I miss a quote from my favourite book series

 

[thedbdiboy]

I'd love to know what the reasoning behind this scheme is, as I'm struggling with what it is myself and in particular why one ticket type has a higher discount than others.

The ticket office schemes for wheeelchair users and blind people predate everything else aimed at disabled passengers and those with assistance needs, back in the days when everything had to be bought at a ticket office and wheelchair users were normally placed in the guards van - no ramps, no spaces inside the carriages.
Since then there has been a huge expanse in both facilities and discounts as well as recognising the differing accessibility needs of customers.
However, every time in the last 20 years it has been proposed to withdraw this scheme as outdated, the DfT have stalled because even though it is used by a tiny number of people it could create negative press. However, they in turn have not been willing to fund changing any of the other discounts to 50% as this would extend the reach of the scheme and cost more.
In many ways this joins the queue along with social care, leasehold reform and dozens of other issues where successive politicians are paralysed with having to make a decision that is inevitably going to disadvantage some people and therefore choose to kick the can down the road.
(TfW could of course make their own decision in relation to Wales as transport is a devolved matter, but the same factors presumably apply)