Missold tickets for wheelchair user

[styles]

A family member of mine has called Transport for Wales, described their disability, and asked to book tickets and arrange passenger assistance on the same call.

She has been sold a Disabled Railcard discounted anytime day return ticket.

However they remain in their wheelchair for the full journey.

Which means they should've been offered a 50% discount: https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/tick...romotions/wheelchair-user-without-a-railcard/

They also, bizarrely, allocated them seats in the middle of the carriage, which are inaccessible by this wheelchair. Apparently when they called they were told no reservations could be made, which is really odd given that they then sent a confirmation email from Trainline (!) which included seat reservations!

When I called TfW, after some call drops, they've been allocated a new seat for two legs, great! Except the second new seat reservation still isn't a wheelchair space!

I've tried to make wheelchair space reservations but the TfW call keeps dropping and the last time I called a few minutes ago I hit a brick wall because I'm not the passenger. Great, so disabled passengers who don't know the ins and outs of the rail system can't have their problems fixed apparently.

This family member is not very familiar with trains and has been let down before when it comes to passenger assistance, so I'm sort of handling it on their behalf.

How do I go about claiming the 16.66% back on the tickets? Do I contact TfW for this? Given that they are travelling tomorrow though, how does this actually work for the tickets themselves?

I'm fuming, but trying very hard not to take it out on the call handlers.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Transport for Wales does not offer seat reservations on any of these services. If they have been sent any, this is an error. Though I have no idea how they would even have been issued, counted places are available but not actual seats. I don't know about the wheelchair space, I assume that is done separately as part of an assistance booking.

Is it definitely a TfW train?

Could you perhaps do a conference call (most mobiles I think can do this) and get the family member on at the same time as yourself?

Do they have a Disabled Railcard? If not then the tickets aren't even valid...all the more reason to sort it!

 

[RAPC]

Looking further down on the link you shared, it has a section marked 'How to buy'. Is the issue that it was purchased on a call, where that ticket type won't be available?

Available only from staff at stations and in-person purchases on-board where permitted.

 

[styles]

Transport for Wales does not offer seat reservations on any of these services. If they have been sent any, this is an error.

The journey is not exclusively on TfW. It involves a lengthy Avanti stretch, who definitely offer reservations.

Though I have no idea how they would even have been issued, counted places are available but not actual seats. I don't know about the wheelchair space, I assume that is done separately as part of an assistance booking.

Is it definitely a TfW train?

The first train is TfW, and one which incorporates wheelchair space reservations. Though the main issue is with the Avanti leg.

Could you perhaps do a conference call (most mobiles I think can do this) and get the family member on at the same time as yourself?

Do they have a Disabled Railcard? If not then the tickets aren't even valid...all the more reason to sort it!

They do have a Disabled Railcard, which I believe has been missold to them because the journeys they've booked they'd have been entitled to a 50% discount on account of remaining in the wheelchair for the journey, meaning both the tickets and potentially even the Railcard have been missold.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Aug 2026 ==

Looking further down on the link you shared, it has a section marked 'How to buy'. Is the issue that it was purchased on a call, where that ticket type won't be available?

Ugh, maybe this is fair game then. That's absolutely horrific if they stick to that though.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The journey is not exclusively on TfW. It involves a lengthy Avanti stretch, who definitely offer reservations.

The first train is TfW, and one which incorporates wheelchair space reservations. Though the main issue is with the Avanti leg.

They do have a Disabled Railcard, which I believe has been missold to them because the journeys they've booked they'd have been entitled to a 50% discount on account of remaining in the wheelchair for the journey, meaning both the tickets and potentially even the Railcard have been missold.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Aug 2026 ==


Ugh, maybe this is fair game then. That's absolutely horrific if they stick to that though.

I would suggest getting TfW to cancel and refund everything (as they have clearly totally stuffed it up) and booking via Avanti's assistance line. They will know about how it is done with their trains. Though there is I suppose a risk they stuff that up as well and fail to cancel the wheelchair space, meaning Avanti can't then book it.

If they refuse there is a not unreasonable case to do a chargeback or (if a credit card) Section 75 on the basis of the service clearly not having been done with reasonable care and skill, but beware that I have heard that Trainline tend to permanently blacklist cards (and possibly the associated people) where that is carried out, and I don't think there's much that could be done about that, and it sounds like it is done via them from your description.

 

[styles]

I would suggest getting TfW to cancel and refund everything (as they have clearly totally stuffed it up) and booking via Avanti's assistance line. They will know about how it is done with their trains.

This is maybe the way.

I'm awaiting a call back from TfW but I'm not holding out much hope and this issue needs sorting today. I only learned about this problem by accident, particularly the seating allocation, so very much on the hoof dealing with it.

I'm just really annoyed. This passenger had passenger assistance not turn up a few years ago and it put them off rail travel completely for years. Now they're trying it solo for the first time they've been allocated inaccessible seats and potentially overcharged for their tickets. This is not the way we should treat passengers.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm just really annoyed. This passenger had passenger assistance not turn up a few years ago and it put them off rail travel completely for years. Now they're trying it solo for the first time they've been allocated inaccessible seats and potentially overcharged for their tickets. This is not the way we should treat passengers.

I completely agree. It is and long has been my view that the entire assistance setup on the railway from start to finish is unacceptably bad to the extent of probably being an easy target for legal challenge under the Equality Act, and this is yet another entirely unsurprising example of it. I am fortunate in not needing it, but were I in a wheelchair but capable of driving an adapted car I simply would not ever travel by train - and I'm an advocate of rail...

Edit: even if they aren't wrong on the fares, the seats thing is enough...because of the potential vulnerability of assistance passengers it really must be 100% every single time...

 

[styles]

If they refuse there is a not unreasonable case to do a chargeback or (if a credit card) Section 75 on the basis of the service clearly not having been done with reasonable care and skill, but beware that I have heard that Trainline tend to permanently blacklist cards (and possibly the associated people) where that is carried out, and I don't think there's much that could be done about that, and it sounds like it is done via them from your description.

To be perfectly honest I wouldn't care if Trainline/TfW blacklisted their card. They're clearly incompetent. There's a dozen or more alternative apps they could use, including the forum's one.

 

[Wallsendmag]

if there is a lengthy Avanti leg is the ticket a SDR ? If not the discount is only 34%

 

[Bletchleyite]

if there is a lengthy Avanti leg is the ticket a SDR ? If not the discount is only 34%

Wheelchair user without a Railcard | National Rail

Special offer: Wheelchair user without a Railcard. The portal into UK rail travel, including information on ticket purchase and promotions, train times and delays, and more.

www.nationalrail.co.uk

Also doesn't seem to be applicable to Off Peaks or Advances at all? Most odd.

One wheelchair user, if they remain in their own wheelchair throughout the journey, plus one adult companion, travelling together can get a discount on the following ticket types:

Anytime Single, Anytime Return, and Anytime Day Single

• Adult: 34%
• Child: 75%
• Under five years old: Free
• Accompanying Adult: 34%
• Accompanying Child: None

Anytime Day Return

• Adult: 50%
• Child: 75%
• Under five years old: Free
• Accompanying Adult: 50%
• Accompanying Child: None

If the accompanying person is 5-15, a Child Rate fare may be cheaper than a discounted Adult fare. Discounts do not apply to Child Rate tickets.

In a small number of cases where an Anytime Day Return is not available, ticket office staff may issue two equivalent single tickets at 50% discount.

 

[AlterEgo]

Ugh, maybe this is fair game then. That's absolutely horrific if they stick to that though.

It is completely unacceptable if they do. Some wheelchair users will not be able to access the ticket office and it is not good to wait until the day of travel to buy your tickets on board.

 

[RAPC]

Looking further down on the link you shared, it has a section marked 'How to buy'. Is the issue that it was purchased on a call, where that ticket type won't be available?

Just following up on this and spoken to someone at Avanti who was my contact when we made quite a few large corporate bookings. She confirmed the ticket discount issued by TfW is correct. They can't sell the ticket listed with the 50% discount via the telephone, only at stations.

Doesn't solve the reservation issue, but the ticket discount appears to be correct.

 

[styles]

Just following up on this and spoken to someone at Avanti who was my contact when we made quite a few large corporate bookings. She confirmed the ticket discount issued by TfW is correct. They can't sell the ticket listed with the 50% discount via the telephone, only at stations.

Doesn't solve the reservation issue, but the ticket discount appears to be correct.

Not having a go at you or your pal but that's a frankly ridiculous policy.

I've managed to sort the seat reservations but getting the ticket refund is proving a right faff.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Aug 2026 ==

if there is a lengthy Avanti leg is the ticket a SDR ? If not the discount is only 34%

It is, against my advice, but for understandable reasons, a couple of anytime tickets.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Aug 2026 ==

Edit: even if they aren't wrong on the fares, the seats thing is enough...because of the potential vulnerability of assistance passengers it really must be 100% every single time...

Yes. This family member has effectively had to make half a dozen phone calls just to get on a train with the assurance they've have space. It's quite upsetting if I'm honest and I'm not even the passenger. Why allocate a seat (36) in the middle of a carriage to a wheelchair user and also tell them they don't do seat reservations? It's absurd.

 

[Wallsendmag]

So it looks like 34% off Anytime returns

 

[Bletchleyite]

So it looks like 34% off Anytime returns

Though it does also say:

In a small number of cases where an Anytime Day Return is not available, ticket office staff may issue two equivalent single tickets at 50% discount.

I wonder what these cases are?

 

[Watershed]

Though it does also say:



I wonder what these cases are?

Apparently it is for flows where SDRs have been abolished as part of the LNER sham trial. But not for flows where there simply isn't an SDR.

I wonder whether the refusal to offer the 50% discount in advance of travel is compliant with the Equality Act, in view of the fact that you have to make a wheelchair reservation to guarantee travel on some services, and the only way of making sure that this is still available on your preferred train is to book ahead of time. I'm not an expert on it but this would seem to be a case of indirect discrimination as a minimum.

 

[styles]

So it looks like 34% off Anytime returns

Except this bit:

Anytime Day Return

• Adult: 50%
• Child: 75%
• Under five years old: Free
• Accompanying Adult: 50%
• Accompanying Child: None

 

[Bletchleyite]

That's Anytime Day Returns, not Anytime Returns. Which ticket have they purchased?

Goiodness only knows why it's different, though. It seems a rather messy scheme!

 

[Starmill]

That's Anytime Day Returns, not Anytime Returns. Which ticket have they purchased?

Goiodness only knows why it's different, though. It seems a rather messy scheme!

Especially given it allows singles if no returns are available. Absolutely bananas.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Especially given it allows singles if no returns are available. Absolutely bananas.

I'd love to know what the reasoning behind this scheme is, as I'm struggling with what it is myself and in particular why one ticket type has a higher discount than others.

 

[Wallsendmag]

That's Anytime Day Returns, not Anytime Returns. Which ticket have they purchased?

Goiodness only knows why it's different, though. It seems a rather messy scheme!

Have a look at the same scheme for a person with sight problems now that's really messy

 

[TUC]

I'd love to know what the reasoning behind this scheme is, as I'm struggling with what it is myself and in particular why one ticket type has a higher discount than others.

I suspect it is something which has remained since pre-railcard days and there has been no attempt since to align the discounts together.

 

[LowLevel]

Awareness of these discounts amongst both staff and passengers is generally poor with the latter often just defaulting to using the Disabled Railcard and paying in advance anyway these days. No idea if they've ever been available to telesales staff to issue but (presumably because they date from a different era) they are entirely incumbent on the wheelchair user not transferring to a seat to maintain eligibility.

I would not be surprised at them not being proactively offered at any point of sale these days with the reduction in direct sales of tickets by staff members and it may cause some head scratching akin to asking for a rover. The appropriate discount codes are D34, D50 and D75.

I did hear some suggestion a while back that they may be withdrawn as part of "simplification" anyway but nothing since.

 

[Segedunum]

In my seven months of doing Passenger Assist bookings for a number of TOCs (with the ability to sell tickets) I don't think I was ever actually asked for this discount. We had two ticket issuing systems depending on TOC, and the ones that used STAR Telesales I recall having a generic "50% discount" option under Railcards.

Thing is, STAR could theoretically retail all sorts, including printed timetable books for "First Great Western" (years after that name ceased to be used) so I'm not sure if said discount would have even applied properly.

 

[Starmill]

Awareness of these discounts amongst both staff and passengers is generally poor with the latter often just defaulting to using the Disabled Railcard and paying in advance anyway these days. No idea if they've ever been available to telesales staff to issue but (presumably because they date from a different era) they are entirely incumbent on the wheelchair user not transferring to a seat to maintain eligibility.

I would not be surprised at them not being proactively offered at any point of sale these days with the reduction in direct sales of tickets by staff members and it may cause some head scratching akin to asking for a rover. The appropriate discount codes are D34, D50 and D75.

I did hear some suggestion a while back that they may be withdrawn as part of "simplification" anyway but nothing since.

If a customer contacts the passenger assistance telephone line, these discounts can indeed be offered this way. Recognition may be rather poor as you mention, but it's technically possible. GWR telesales even used to be able to book Priv tickets in the days when you nobody could get them online.

As you say getting a Disabled Railcard discounted Advance ticket is almost always cheaper anyway.

Edit: just realised @Segedunum has just said basically the same thing above!

 

[Adam Williams]

I remain of the view that access to these could be greatly extended by permitting online retail. It should be very obvious to on-train staff if someone is in a wheelchair or not whilst travelling so I reject the suggestion of revenue risk, and there is already facility to buy for someone else at the ticket office. The purchaser does not need to be in a wheelchair.

If you don't want to display it in the discount list shown to every user, you could make it locked to specific accounts who write in to request the ability to book using it.

 

[TUC]

I remain of the view that access to these could be greatly extended by permitting online retail. It should be very obvious to on-train staff if someone is in a wheelchair or not whilst travelling so I reject the suggestion of revenue risk, and there is already facility to buy for someone else at the ticket office. The purchaser does not need to be in a wheelchair.

If you don't want to display it in the discount list shown to every user, you could make it locked to specific accounts who write in to request the ability to book using it.

Very hard to see why in a disabled person railcard world this discount is still needed.

 

[Watershed]

Very hard to see why in a disabled person railcard world this discount is still needed.

Because 50% off is better than 1/3 off. Yes, not every journey has an Anytime Day Return, and for those that do have one, it may be cheaper to get 1/3 off an Off-Peak ticket or Advance. But give people the choice of specifying both that they're in a wheelchair and that they have a Disabled Railcard - that way the journey planner can work out what's cheapest.

Plus some people may not travel often or far enough to make a Railcard worthwhile. People on this forum are, by and large, outliers in being such frequent rail users. Applying for a Disabled Railcard is also not as straightforward as an age-based Railcard or a Network Railcard, for example, so not everyone will want to go through that hassle and/or want to share the evidence that is needed to get one.

 

[Adam Williams]

Very hard to see why in a disabled person railcard world this discount is still needed.

It gives a greater discount than the Disabled Persons Railcard on the tickets it can discount, and requires no pre-payment to access.

50% off is better than 1/3 off

34% is also better than 33.4%!

 

[Haywain]

Because 50% off is better than 1/3 off. Yes, not every journey has an Anytime Day Return, and for those that do have one, it may be cheaper to get 1/3 off an Off-Peak ticket or Advance. But give people the choice of specifying both that they're in a wheelchair and that they have a Disabled Railcard - that way the journey planner can work out what's cheapest.

Plus some people may not travel often or far enough to make a Railcard worthwhile. People on this forum are, by and large, outliers in being such frequent rail users. Applying for a Disabled Railcard is also not as straightforward as an age-based Railcard or a Network Railcard, for example, so not everyone will want to go through that hassle and/or want to share the evidence that is needed to get one.

A couple of years ago my mother was given a hospital appointment at Moorfields in London and, as she was unable to travel other than in a wheelchair, this was the appropriate discount for her and her carer. There was no way my mother was going to be travelling enough to warrant attempting to buy a railcard. I am pleased to say that her local station had no problems in issuing the tickets with the discount. However, I would also note that during nearly 20 years of involvement with selling tickets at a major London terminal I never sold a ticket with such a discount.