Missold an unneeded single? Split ticketing Brighton mainline

[Mrdini]

I consider myself decently familiar with the various quirks around tickets on the Brighton mainline but was puzzled by a ticket combo I got today and wondered if anyone could explain.

Bought via Virgin Trains.
Journey requested was PRP - ZFD. Was offered to split-ticket it so decided to go for it.
(Disabled Railcard) Tickets the ticket machine spat out was as follows:-
Super off-peak day return Preston Park - London Thameslink
Anytime Day Single London Bridge - Farringdon

Looking at the day return ticket T&C in the app, it says it should’ve been valid to and from ZFD.

Was I missold a single I don’t need (Farringdon is “London Thameslink” as far as I know!).

Thanks in advance!

 

[jfollows]

What are PRP and ZFD please?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

What are PRP and ZFD please?

Preston Park and Farringdon. Should really have been explained.

 

[jfollows]

See https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/travel-information/travelling-in-london/

Ticket was valid as far as Saint Pancras.



The latter from BRF, or https://www.brfares.com/!expert?orig=PRP&dest=4452&rlc=DIS&period=20260301 as most of us know it.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Anyone able to replicate the issue when booking this journey?

 

[Swedenorer]

I can't.

Forum site gives London Thameslink £12.10 - you could have saved 20p with 2 advance singles. If you paid more than this you were miss sold (Quite what Virgin was trying to achieve with the single anyway we will never know!)

Mind you I am not grappling with anything having Branson's logo.

 

[marshlinker]

Yep, there something strange on Virgin trains ticketing. It gives me a super off peak return from Preston Park to City Thameslink then a n Anytime Single from City Thameslink to Farringdon. It then tells me the return ticket is valid for the whole journey and a split isn't required.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Yep, there something strange on Virgin trains ticketing. It gives me a super off peak return from Preston Park to City Thameslink then a n Anytime Single from City Thameslink to Farringdon. It then tells me the return ticket is valid for the whole journey and a split isn't required.

Thanks for checking. So, yet another fully accredited retailer?!

 

[81A]

Surely it would be possible to have the cost of the surplus single refunded? I'd imagine there would be some protection in consumer rights law (unless the app showed you the tickets you were buying before you paid, in that case getting a refund would probably be dependent on goodwill)?

 

[Haywain]

Surely it would be possible to have the cost of the surplus single refunded? I'd imagine there would be some protection in consumer rights law (unless the app showed you the tickets you were buying before you paid, in that case getting a refund would probably be dependent on goodwill)?

Getting a refund for a ticket that wasn't needed isn't a goodwill gesture and not should it require any reference to consumer rights law.

 

[81A]

Getting a refund for a ticket that wasn't needed isn't a goodwill gesture and not should it require any reference to consumer rights law.

In theory and on principle, I fully agree! The issue is, now tickets are non-refundable on and after the day of travel, getting it fixed in practice! I'd imagine you'd have little issue with the likes of Trainsplit/Railsmartr (their customer service has always seemed/been excellent-never used Virgin so not sure) but I'd imagine you'd struggle with the likes Trip.com without a threatening sounding reference to Consumer rights (or some such) law...

 

[Swedenorer]

As the OP has not mentioned what he paid I wonder if the TVM just spat out part of a previous order not completely fulfilled?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

As the OP has not mentioned what he paid I wonder if the TVM just spat out part of a previous order not completely fulfilled?

See, however, post #7 (upthread), posted by @marshlinker.

 

[OscarH]

London Thameslink is very messy from a data perspective. I can absolutely see how you'd end up with a bug causing this, although anyone developing a journey planner you'd hope would know about edge cases like this and actually test it!

Hopefully they apply common sense, and refund it and fix the bug promptly

 

[Mrdini]

Thank you all! I did wonder if I had missed something subtle (especially with all the various quirks of tickets on the Brighton mainline such as Thameslink-only tickets etc). I've dropped an email to Virgin support, although since it's only a couple of quids, I might chalk it up to a lesson learned not to split-ticket in future if they don't agree.

@marshlinker is absolutely correct - you can still see the invalid fares when trying to split-ticket next Sat (same T&Cs - "Valid to Farringdon"). Annoying.

@Swedenorer - Advance wasn't an option as bought on the day (I don't think Advance are ever available same day...? At least not on the Brighton mainline) but noted for future!

 

[Adam Williams]

although since it's only a couple of quids, I might chalk it up to a lesson learned not to split-ticket with Virgin Trains Ticketing in future if they don't agree

Fixed that for you

 

[yorkie]

Is Virgin ticketing one of those shoddy providers, like Uber and Trainpal, that is really rubbish, but people put up with all sorts of problems to get cashback and/or money off vouchers?

I consider myself decently familiar with the various quirks around tickets on the Brighton mainline but was puzzled by a ticket combo I got today and wondered if anyone could explain.

Bought via Virgin Trains.
Journey requested was PRP - ZFD. Was offered to split-ticket it so decided to go for it.
(Disabled Railcard) Tickets the ticket machine spat out was as follows:-
Super off-peak day return Preston Park - London Thameslink
Anytime Day Single London Bridge - Farringdon

Looking at the day return ticket T&C in the app, it says it should’ve been valid to and from ZFD.

Was I missold a single I don’t need (Farringdon is “London Thameslink” as far as I know!).

Thanks in advance!

The first ticket is absolutely valid to St Pancras; the second ticket is superflous.

I don't know who does the stuff behind the scenes for Virgin ticketing, but it's not the same supplier the forum's site uses.

My advice would be to use the forum's site in future; bugs of this nature are very rare, and can be reported directly to the relevant people who can get any such issues fixed, and a refund for any missold ticket would likely be very prompt indeed.

 

[marshlinker]

Is Virgin ticketing one of those shoddy providers, like Uber and Trainpal, that is really rubbish, but people put up with all sorts of problems to get cashback and/or money off vouchers?

I use Virgin I find the split tickets generally reasonable. Trainsplit will sometimes find cheaper splits but are more expensive once you add in the "share of saving" fee.
You can also spend things like Tesco Clubcard points with Virgin. I cant remember ever needing customer support from a ticket retailer tbh.

 

[Tom]

Is Virgin ticketing one of those shoddy providers, like Uber and Trainpal, that is really rubbish, but people put up with all sorts of problems to get cashback and/or money off vouchers?

I think that this is really doing a disservice to all of the third party retailers. Ultimately people only ever really complain about the poor experiences and thus on an online discussion forum environment, that is all we will see. When you consider it in proportionality to the number of sales that they make, that's likely an incredibly small number of transactions.

Every retailer has a slightly different proposition to put forward, whether that be associating itself with an expert forum, value adding at the journey end, cashback, claiming to have the best split ticketing algorithm, etc. They all have a place and they will differentiate on their various aspects. As someone who sells tickets now, I know that I have to differentiate on the product because at the end of the day we're selling a commodity. The number of times that a normal customer is likely to have to contact any customer service is, realistically, incredibly low.

The fares data as we all know is rubbish that it requires fettling in undocumented ways to produce results. We know that it isn't perfect. Yes, it is annoying that it happens and it is a poor reflection on the retailer when something goes wrong but no fares system is ever perfect and can ever claim to be. We don't yet know from this thread how VTT are choosing to resolve the issue so it is poor to tar everyone with the same brush.

 

[mikeg]

Is Virgin ticketing one of those shoddy providers, like Uber and Trainpal, that is really rubbish, but people put up with all sorts of problems to get cashback and/or money off vouchers?

The first ticket is absolutely valid to St Pancras; the second ticket is superflous.

I don't know who does the stuff behind the scenes for Virgin ticketing, but it's not the same supplier the forum's site uses.

My advice would be to use the forum's site in future; bugs of this nature are very rare, and can be reported directly to the relevant people who can get any such issues fixed, and a refund for any missold ticket would likely be very prompt indeed.

AFAIK Virgin Trains Ticketing heavily partnered with Siverrail to the point where Silverrail do just about everything, basically a white label Silverrail app with added Virgin Red points. I've generally found the split ticketing functionality rather limited but there are no fees and it can often coaxed into using a different split point if you manually identify a better split (I did this to Ramsgate, it was wanting to split in London, quite possibly in such a suboptimal way as the OP had it do, yet I knew a cheap advance was available from Donny to Ramsgate, so entering 'Doncaster' in the via field made it split there. But I digress...)

Even appears on my credit card statement as 'Silverrail*VirginTrains' or something like that until the payment has fully cleared. I've actually found their support not bad, though as others as well as myself have discovered, the app has a few bugs. One, which I think (though can't be sure) has since been squished is that when booking an SVR or SOR, say, and selecting a return date, the 'start from' date was shown as the date selected rather than the actual beginning of validity. However I believe some other Silverrail apps used to have this issue?
I find that Virgin Trains Ticketing , along with the forums site and brfares.com are between them the third party retailers I'd generally recommend, each having a different usage case. I use VTT for my 'everyday' use, simply because of the Virgin Red points. They'd have added up a lot quicker though if I still commuted by rail on CDRs but I've nearly got a cheap flight to Amsterdam...

To be fair, yes I put up with the odd bug here and there to get points, but it's no worse than the bugs and design flaws I've found in some TOC apps. I've yet to find a perfect app/booking site for all use cases.

 

[yorkie]

I think that this is really doing a disservice to all of the third party retailers. Ultimately people only ever really complain about the poor experiences and thus on an online discussion forum environment, that is all we will see.

That's not all I've seen.

When you consider it in proportionality to the number of sales that they make, that's likely an incredibly small number of transactions.

Yes, I would agree only a small proportion of transactions would be reported on.

Every retailer has a slightly different proposition to put forward, whether that be associating itself with an expert forum, value adding at the journey end, cashback, claiming to have the best split ticketing algorithm, etc. They all have a place and they will differentiate on their various aspects. As someone who sells tickets now, I know that I have to differentiate on the product because at the end of the day we're selling a commodity. The number of times that a normal customer is likely to have to contact any customer service is, realistically, incredibly low.

Yes, but the issue I have is where some providers 'proposition' is to devalue the product, and provide a poor service.

It was a question; it sounds like your answer is "no", in which case fair enough, and time will tell either way.

The fares data as we all know is rubbish that it requires fettling in undocumented ways to produce results.

This is true, and some of those who chose to enter the market didn't do due diligence - in my opinion - to fully estimate/identify the scale of the huge work involved.

We know that it isn't perfect. Yes, it is annoying that it happens and it is a poor reflection on the retailer when something goes wrong but no fares system is ever perfect and can ever claim to be. We don't yet know from this thread how VTT are choosing to resolve the issue so it is poor to tar everyone with the same brush.

I'm not at all tarring everyone with the same brush.

AFAIK Virgin Trains Ticketing heavily partnered with Siverrail to the point where Silverrail do just about everything....

Maybe so, but it surprises me in that case that we've not had any other reports of Silverrail sites not validating Brighton (or other locations) to London Thameslink tickets as valid through to St Pancras.

 

[Mrdini]

Just to come back to this. Confirmed a mistake & a fix to be done. Refund on its way. Result. Thanks all!

 

[bunnahabhain]

Some retailers also seem to sell a Manchester Oxford Road (MCO) to Manchester Piccadilly (MAN) single for folks who have AP tickets to Oxford Road. I can't tell the difference from what is presented digitally if it's valid to MAN or MCO so see no reason why the additional ticket has been sold, I can't imagine any staff member would challenge a ticket sold to Manchester Stations, AP or not.

 

[kacper]

BRF

What is BRF please.

 

[Haywain]

What is BRF please.

I think it's meant to be Blackfriars, which has a code of BFR.

 

[jfollows]

I think it's meant to be Blackfriars, which has a code of BFR.

No, I was trying to joke about the liberal use of abbreviations making the thread incomprehensible, "BRF" being "BR Fares" because - why not? I did also provide a link to it.

 

[OscarH]

Just to come back to this. Confirmed a mistake & a fix to be done. Refund on its way. Result. Thanks all!

So about 6 weeks and such a problematic bug is "to be done"... oh dear