Missing Signal Numbers - Melton Mowbray

[FrankOwen]

Does any one know why the numbers are missing from the signals around MM?
It's a real pain having to get your route map out when stopped at a signal before calling the box.

 

[Tomnick]

It's not all that uncommon in Absolute Block areas. Signals generally would be referred to as "up home" or "down starter" in comms between driver and signalman, a practice which has persisted until relatively recently (good luck with that at Melton though!). Obviously things have tightened up a lot since then!

Can I suggest reporting it through your own management? If everyone did that, it'd get sorted much more quickly.

 

[FrankOwen]

Thanks Tom.
What made me curious was that another one of our drivers asked the signalman and he said that someone came a few years back and removed them all. Even the shunting discs are missing numbers.
It's particularly annoying being a tamper driver as we do a lot of T3 possession work around MM.
I'll log it with our control next time I'm working over that way.

 

[najaB]

What made me curious was that another one of our drivers asked the signalman and he said that someone came a few years back and removed them all. Even the shunting discs are missing numbers.
It's particularly annoying being a tamper driver as we do a lot of T3 possession work around MM.

With no signal numbers, how are you supposed to know what to hit? [emoji14]

(Joking, of course.)

 

[Peter Mugridge]

What made me curious was that another one of our drivers asked the signalman and he said that someone came a few years back and removed them all. Even the shunting discs are missing numbers.

Removed officially, or removed as in stolen?

 

[bramling]

Thanks Tom.
What made me curious was that another one of our drivers asked the signalman and he said that someone came a few years back and removed them all. Even the shunting discs are missing numbers.
It's particularly annoying being a tamper driver as we do a lot of T3 possession work around MM.
I'll log it with our control next time I'm working over that way.

A lot of the signals on the Peterborough-Leicester line never had plates, as far as I know.

This certainly applied to Langham Junction, Ashwell and Whissendine - although all three have recently gained them. Oakham Level Crossing and Melton Station have been inconsistent - with some signals having plates and others not. Meanwhile at Oakham some were plated "OA" and others "OM".

There are (or perhaps were) still a few places on the network without plates. Skegness was certainly one, and I think Buxton still may be too.

 

[Tomnick]

It's possible, I suppose, that some of the dollies at Melton had their ID plates removed when the layout under the box was remodelled a few years ago. As a signalman, I didn't really know what did and what didn't have plates (until a confused driver came on the phone!). With the layout at Melton in particular, and the number of stop signals on the Up (easy to have three or four, or more, trains at once on the Up!), there's certainly a risk of confusion, especially now that virtually all comms are by GSMR.

 

[noddingdonkey]

If there is uncertainty over which signal it is, is it within the rulebook for the signaller ask the driver to use an SPT instead of GSM-R, which I assume identifies the location the call is coming from?

 

[68000]

If there is uncertainty over which signal it is, is it within the rulebook for the signaller ask the driver to use an SPT instead of GSM-R, which I assume identifies the location the call is coming from?

In absolute block areas, the signaller would see the the TRN and the cell name on his GSM-R terminal

 

[D Foster]

As a "dinosaur" I go with the view that train crew - that's Driver Fireman/Second-man and Guard - should know where they are by their route knowledge. "In my day" none of these individuals would have been able to sign for a route without demonstrating clear knowledge of every single signal on the route. A lot of the testing would have been done in the Inspectors office.
Admittedly there is a difference between the signalling of Absolute Block (and derivative systems) and Track Circuit Block.
To the best of my knowledge TCB signals have always had their number attached to them. The possibility of a signal being on plain line in the middle of nowhere makes this a rational measure.
I would be grateful for confirmation that TCB signals have always been plated.
I do know that some Intermediate Block signals never gained an identity plate - we had some fun with a troublesome Driver that didn't know what signal he was at... He regretted "kicking off" about being stopped on an Intermediate Home - the phone was on an omnibus circuit. If he's still driving he's probably still being asked if he knows where he is.
It occurs to me that I don't know whether Automatic Block signals had identifying numbers fitted to them... Can anyone assists with this please?