Missing scheduled stop.

[trevwilliams]

Was visiting some of the London suburban lines yesterday and the driver of one of the trains failed to make a scheduled stop. After waiting for around 10 mins the train reversed back. I was just wondering how this is will affect the driver. Obviously not anything like having a SPAD but still? Hope someone may be able to shed some light on this. Thanks.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

It varies from TOC to TOC as far as I understand, but he (or she) would have been met by a reception committee at the terminus of the journey, taken for a chat with a manager to try and establish what caused the incident. OTMR would have been downloaded.
Maybe a few days off track. Maybe a medscreen. Some plan will be drawn up to try to prevent it happening again and then they will be back out to work. Maybe increased monitoring of future driving for a fixed period of time.

Obviously if a driver has multiple station overruns or failures to call then things might go a bit further, but as a one off offence it's an unfortunate but fairly minor incident.

 

[Morden Via CHX]

Would only be a minor disciplinary I'd imagine. It's much more important for the driver to follow the correct procedure afterwards.

 

[NeilWatson]

Surely the practical approach would be to carry on to the next stop and let passengers travel back from there?

 

[yorkie]

Surely the practical approach would be to carry on to the next stop and let passengers travel back from there?

Usually, yes. See Driver overshoots. Not allowed to set back?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I was just wondering how this is will affect the driver.

Depends on the circumstances. There are some posts in the thread linked to above that might assist, such as...

This happened to me a few years back on the east grinstead line, slid through a station by a coach and a half in the leaf fall. Obviously still contact signaller and get permissions, you don't just open the non isolated doors and carry on! Still reported it, then isolated the front 3 doors and opened, made announcement to alight from coaches 3-8. Will say for the record I was equitted of any blame, no problems with braking technique etc, hit the end of the platform at 12mph as it was so slippy going in, by the 4 car mark had her in step 3 brake, emergency a coach or so later as I knew it wasn't stopping. Slid off the end doing a mighty 3.6mph according to the download!

Don't ink it is in writing but as I say you must still report it, just unlikely they will ask you to go back into the platform if possible to isolate the doors (which takes a few seconds).

 

[michael769]

I think I have mentioned before that I was once on a train that was allowed to set back so this is by no means a unique incident.

I suspect the response will depend on the circumstances. The biggest single factor will I suspect be the drivers past record. Everyone makes the odd mistake and a driver with an otherwise excellent record will probably have not much more than a brief chat with his line manager to see if everything is OK with him. On the other hand a driver who has a few of these on his record would probably face a lot more scrutiny.

 

[Cliveblackpool]

It's no big deal as long as they don't run out of track!
Eg a terminus station!
Many years ago a train approaching a terminus, had the signal before the platform, which warned of coaches already in the platform. Entered slowly, the platform was empty, at less than 8 mph. One of the carriage cleaners held up his hand to stop (cause they wanted to work in the sunshine, rather than under the canopy!!) driver braked - every wheel on the train stopped. The train carried on for 150+ yards...and hit the stop blocks at a few miles per hour. (Oil on the track)

 

[Cherry_Picker]

It's no big deal as long as they don't run out of track!
Eg a terminus station!
Many years ago a train approaching a terminus, had the signal before the platform, which warned of coaches already in the platform. Entered slowly, the platform was empty, at less than 8 mph. One of the carriage cleaners held up his hand to stop (cause they wanted to work in the sunshine, rather than under the canopy!!) driver braked - every wheel on the train stopped. The train carried on for 150+ yards...and hit the stop blocks at a few miles per hour. (Oil on the track)

@Cliveblackpool Out of curiosity, which station and when?

 

[dk1]

After waiting for around 10 mins the train reversed back.

Driver would almost certainly changed ends. Trains are not allowed to propell (reverse) unless in extreme circumstances which this is not.

 

[TukayAway]

I've been on two trains that have done this. One just clean forgot to stop at Cricklewood, there were no efforts it seemed to stop there. We were travelling North and the passengers only had a couple of minutes to wait for a train back at Hendon.

Just before Christmas, I travelled on the Christmas Yorkshireman and we very nearly missed out Bedford on the way back. The Bedford stop had been removed heading North due to platforming issues and the driver thought it was the same on the way back. (Overheard a conversation on a walkie talkie with someone in the cab) We had been held just outside the station, the driver accelerated away hard and then the emergency brakes came out, I think it was just the last two carriages that were on the platform. Cue lots of people passing through the carriages.

 

[westcoaster]

Driver would almost certainly changed ends. Trains are not allowed to propell (reverse) unless in extreme circumstances which this is not.

Only ever propell once due to an ma failure, only the leading cab of 4 had power to the controls, just had to remember to temp isolate the tpws so it didn't trip ( another driver was down the back or front in constant radio coms).

 

[trevwilliams]

Out of curiosity, which station and when?

Im not going to be specific as the driver will have enough attention as the posts have suggested. Just to say it was on Chiltern Railways service to Marylebone.

Thanks for the replies everyone.

 

[Lockwood]

I've been on two trains that have done this. One just clean forgot to stop at Cricklewood, there were no efforts it seemed to stop there. We were travelling North and the passengers only had a couple of minutes to wait for a train back at Hendon.

If you have a ticket from A to B, and the train fails to stop at B but B is open as normal (so nothing's gone out to everyone saying "Platform 2 at B is closed, allow other routing.")
I therefore get off at C, and get a train back from C to B, on my A to B ticket.

Would a revenue protection staff on a bad day issue a penalty fare for travelling outside of the ticket?

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Im not going to be specific as the driver will have enough attention as the posts have suggested. Just to say it was on Chiltern Railways service to Marylebone.

Thanks for the replies everyone.

Sorry, I should have probably been more clear, I was asking about the train hitting the buffer stops (the post immediately above mine) because I find it difficult to believe. I'm not really interested in who failed to call at a station last week.

 

[transmanche]

Many years ago a train approaching a terminus, had the signal before the platform, which warned of coaches already in the platform. Entered slowly, the platform was empty, at less than 8 mph. One of the carriage cleaners held up his hand to stop (cause they wanted to work in the sunshine, rather than under the canopy!!) driver braked - every wheel on the train stopped. The train carried on for 150+ yards...and hit the stop blocks at a few miles per hour. (Oil on the track)

There was an incident at Slough in November 1994, when a Turbo arriving at platform 6 slid out of control for over 1km, hit the buffers at 30mph and rode up - demolishing part of the station canopy.

 

[tsr]

If you have a ticket from A to B, and the train fails to stop at B but B is open as normal (so nothing's gone out to everyone saying "Platform 2 at B is closed, allow other routing.")
I therefore get off at C, and get a train back from C to B, on my A to B ticket.

Would a revenue protection staff on a bad day issue a penalty fare for travelling outside of the ticket?

On the rare occasion this has happened to me, I have been given free travel back to my destination (or an appropriate alternative) without argument or a PF.

An appeal should be pretty easy if you are charged extra, bearing in mind the incident should have been documented. Lastly, you boarded with a valid* ticket for the journey you intended to make, and the extension was not within your control.

*Let's keep things simple...

 

[W230]

I've been on two trains that have done this. One just clean forgot to stop at Cricklewood, there were no efforts it seemed to stop there. We were travelling North and the passengers only had a couple of minutes to wait for a train back at Hendon.

Unfortunately, due to the random stopping pattern, West Hampstead Thameslink is always a popular "fail to call" too.

 

[PacerFace]

Many many moons ago, I was on the way back from college in Bolton on a 142 and we were approaching my home stop at Kearsley, coming out of the Farnworth tunnel we were going (as it seemed to me) at a fair old lick, not too bothered I went to stand at the rear exit, the guard came out and commented "I don't think we are going to make this one" the brakes came on to what I assume was the 'very keen' application setting. We sailed past the platform coming to a halt just between the station and the bridge. The Guard went back into the cab and muttered away to the driver for a moment then came back out, "two choices either you climb down off the train or you carry on with us to Salford Crescent". I promptly lowered my bag out of the train and stepped down myself.

 

[455driver]

the brakes came on to what I assume was the 'very keen' application setting.

Very good!

Or as I like to call it, the "oh bolleaux more paperwork" position!

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Unfortunately, due to the random stopping pattern, West Hampstead Thameslink is always a popular "fail to call" too.

Done that one myself, in the up direction, I was somewhat distracted by my driver trainer talking about the flashing yellow aspect on the signals as we approached West Hampstead, he got four ride outs and a few points to boot. The managers did seem more concerned about me doing 60mph at a yellow aspect (they prefer 50mph IIRC) than actually having missed the station completely.

It still amazes me how close to the platform edge all the passengers were though......

 

[455driver]

The managers did seem more concerned about me doing 60mph at a yellow aspect (they prefer 50mph IIRC)

The good old (very prescriptive) driving policy, 2 of ours are "you do not take power when approaching a red signal or buffer stops" and "half line speed past a single yellow".

With the first point, if you are going into Kingston bay (towards the buffers) if you dont take power as you enter the platform (after doing 15 over the points) the train will stop and then roll backwards as it is uphill into the bay.

With the second point, on the down Portsmouth direct if I am on a stopper (and have called at Whitley) and will be routed into platform 2 at Haslemere, if you pass the single yellow (EW213) at 42.5 (half line speed ) you wont get to the red (EW46 I think) as it is miles away and uphill at 1 in 80, I continue on full throttle for about half a mile before coasting and then put in 20% brake about 400 yards after Shutters foot crossing which is plenty of time to get down for the signal.

If on a fast then the train will be doing about 80mph anyway so I shut off at the yellow but thats a different situation.

Driving policies are a good thing but there will be exceptions to every part of it (probably), and yes I do keep within the policy where-ever possible, the fact I have had to give 2 very specific examples shows that the policy is 99.9% fine for most normal situations.

 

[Dieseldriver]

I try not to talk about Professional Driving Policies, that way I don't get so wound up about it....

 

[High Dyke]

There is a set procedure, as already mentioned, when these things happen. A station overrun on the ECML a number of years ago caused problems when the crew decided to set back of their own accord.

For those that were on this railtour: 9th March 1985, T.P. Railtours, The Whistler Finale

http://www.sixbellsjunction.co.uk/80s/850309be.htm

Train missed booked stop at station and had to reverse.

I was the person that pulled the emergency cord when the train was approaching Grantham. My apologies for this...but i had a mates 18th party to attend. At the time the guard was cursing me to high heaven for my actions, but quietened down somewhat when the tour stewards and myself presented the evidence - in the form of the timings sheet that stated we should've called at Grantham. Being propelled a mile along the mainline, and into the 'Western' platform was some feat in itself.

 

[williamus]

I used to travel from Birmingham to New Milton to visit my mother in the late 80s early 90s and the the Intercity stops were Southampton - Brockenhurst - Bournemouth, meaning that (as now presumably) you had to alight at Brockenhurst for the stopper to get to New Milton.

For a couple of years (I think) Intercity introduced a Fridays Only stop at New Milton for one train that went through at about 19:40 or 20:40. This suited me perfectly though on one occasion we were running very late and the driver missed this unusual stop but applied the brakes, pulling up several hundred yards beyond the station and setting back which seemed to take a long time. On a separate occasion we ran through to Bournemouth and I had to get the stopper back to New Milton.

I seem to remember that even when the train did stop at the station, not many people got off and I don't think the stop survived long.

 

[edwin_m]

There is a set procedure, as already mentioned, when these things happen. A station overrun on the ECML a number of years ago caused problems when the crew decided to set back of their own accord.
...
Being propelled a mile along the mainline, and into the 'Western' platform was some feat in itself.

I'm sure they would have got permission for this rather than just "on their own accord". Setting back on a busy high speed line past at least one signal and a junction is asking for trouble and would be a serious offence even in the less strict times of the 80s. Ending up in the western platform suggests that the signalman routed them there.

 

[Liam_Hendry]

I was on a train a couple of years back. a class 170 over shooted North Queensferry station. Te train didn't stop afterwards and jut proceeded to the next stop (Dalmeny). Passengers for North Queensferry just got off at Dalmeny and got a train back to North Queensferry.

 

[howittpie]

This has happened twice on trains I have been travelling on. The first time was Virgin pendo that failed to stop at Lichfield Trent Valley this was in the days before LM services the passengers were taken to stafford and transferred on a to a southbiound service that made an additional stop. I remember no one had told the staff at Stafford so when we drew up into the platform there were bemused looks as the screens showed a Liverpool service cue chaos.
The second time was EMT HST that failed to stop southbound at East Midlands Parkway so probally affected no one

 

[bnsf734]

I remember seeing a Euston-Liverpool loco hauled service booked to stop at Nuneaton arrive at high speed with heavy braking. The train did stop - just - the final vehicle was the only one on the north end of platform 3. Passengers had a long walk that evening!


Another story - My brother in law used to work in London and commute every day from Nuneaton. One evening last year his return Virgin Voyager omitted the booked stop at Nuneaton and all the Nuneaton passengers had to get off at the next stop (Tamworth) and get the LM service back. Dinner was late that night!

After he complained he got the usual vouchers and apology.

 

[W230]

Done that one myself...

Im sure it's only a matter of time for me.

 

[vjm1975]

Going back to late 80's early 90's, back in the days when DMU's still operated Chester to Helsby via Hooton, it was a fairly frequent event after dark to see a pacer sail through Overpool station and stop the other side of the bridge, then set back to the station.

After a while though, someone came up with the ingenious idea of switching the station lights on, which reduced the frequency of trains failing to stop. It was only ever the pacers that sailed through, which at the time were being brought to task over less than efficient brakes, but obviously a station in total darkness didn't help a great deal. Leaf fall season was always fun.