Missing Reservation on Advanced Fare

[MTN]

My niece is booked on an advance ticket tomorrow from Sittingbourne to Bath Spa (via HS1).

She has not got the reservation portion for the outward journey from SIT to STP, but has the ticket and the reservation from PAD to BTH.

Would she be able to travel with the itenerary showing the booked train? Or would she be able to get the reservation reprinted? Or would she need a new single ticket?

She has all ticket and reservation coupons for the return journey.

Your help as always would be appreciated.

 

[yorkie]

It really depends on the opinion and discretion of the Southeastern on board manager.

Realistically, the reservation isn't going to be re-printed.

The only way to guarantee a trouble-free journey would be to avoid HS1.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If trying, I would suggest:

1. Take the itinerary with her.

2. Speak to the guard *before* boarding, or if not possible seek the guard out actively before taking a seat.

There is always the risk of a PF or Anytime being charged, though, as the ticket consists of both parts.

 

[John @ home]

I didn't think HS1 had reserved seats. I'll check that.

UPDATE - Table 194 (High Speed Domestic Services) of the National Rail Timetable does not show the diamond "Seat reservations available" symbol for any services. MTN's niece should have no difficulty travelling in accordance with the itinerary already held.

 

[yorkie]

I didn't think HS1 had reserved seats. I'll check that.

It doesn't. It will be one of those fudged 'counted place' reservation coupons. (Shouldn't be allowed in my opinion, but that's another story...)

 

[Cletus]

I've had a quite a few of these tickets with an extra reservation for the Kent part of the journey.
ie
1) Dover-Birmingham advance
2) Dover-Birmingham seat reservation & train time from London
3) Dover-St Pancras ticket with departure time

I've always shown tickets 1 + 2 and have never been asked to show ticket 3.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It doesn't. It will be one of those fudged 'counted place' reservation coupons. (Shouldn't be allowed in my opinion, but that's another story...)

I think they are a total fudge which makes a mess of the timetable (as non-reservable trains show as reservable), but I don't see an issue with Advance tickets being train specific without reservations per-se. DB do it using the train number (we *really* should use those) in the Route field.

 

[Romilly]

I have just tried booking Advance tickets on the VT East Coast website for later this week for Sittingbourne-St Pancras-Bath and Bath-St Pancras-Sittingbourne.

When it came to seat reservations, I was offered a seat for Paddington-Bath and for Bath-Paddington, a counted-place reservation for St Pancras-Sittingbourne, but no reservation ("reservations not available") for Sittingbourne-St Pancras.

So it may be that the OP's niece never had a reservation for Sittingbourne-St Pancras.

If the tickets were booked online, it might be worth checking the booking details to see whether this was indeed the case for this booking.

 

[MTN]

It really depends on the opinion and discretion of the Southeastern on board manager.

Realistically, the reservation isn't going to be re-printed.

The only way to guarantee a trouble-free journey would be to avoid HS1.

What would be the difference going to Victoria? Is it a case of not being the precious HS1? Or less chance of a check?

Bearing in mind she is 18 and not used to travelling alone, I wouldn't want to put her in any awkward situation.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I have just tried booking Advance tickets on the VT East Coast website for later this week for Sittingbourne-St Pancras-Bath and Bath-St Pancras-Sittingbourne.

When it came to seat reservations, I was offered a seat for Paddington-Bath and for Bath-Paddington, a counted-place reservation for St Pancras-Sittingbourne, but no reservation ("reservations not available") for Sittingbourne-St Pancras.

So it may be that the OP's niece never had a reservation for Sittingbourne-St Pancras.

If the tickets were booked online, it might be worth checking the booking details to see whether this was indeed the case for this booking.

I made the booking myself, and the train is reservable, but there are no seat reservations on this leg of the journey - similar to SWT where the train tiome is on the reservation coupon, but there is no seat number allocated.

 

[Romilly]

I made the booking myself, and the train is reservable, but there are no seat reservations on this leg of the journey - similar to SWT where the train tiome is on the reservation coupon, but there is no seat number allocated.

Perhaps I wasn't as clear as I intended. For St Pancras-Sittingbourne I was being offered a "reservation" where the train time is stated but no seat number is allocated. However, for Sittingbourne-St Pancras I was being offered nothing at all by way of a reservation.

 

[bb21]

This one is pretty easy to tell. If her ticket number and reservation coupon number are consecutive for the two she already has, then no reservation coupon is printed or required for the HS1 leg. If they are missing a number in between, then there is a missing coupon. From your description, it sounds like the ticket is printed in the old style, so the coupon numbers should be easy to find.

 

[John @ home]

I think HS1 use a different system from counted places to control the number of Advance tickets issued.

All Sittingbourne to Bath Spa Advance tickets are route + AP SLOUGH, with the "+" sign indicating that the ticket is valid for tube travel between appropriate London Terminal stations.

The restriction code is IS:
Valid on First Great Western (TOC Code:GWA/GRW) and most connecting services (see below).
NOT valid on SouthEastern High Speed services (HS1) arriving at London St Pancras International before 0959, or departing London St Pancras International between 1600 and 1859, Monday to Friday.
Seat reservations are compulsory.

Peak Advance tickets remain available via the classic lines: enter "Via Bromley South" to find these.

It would be interesting if MTN were able to tell us between which stations his niece holds reservations for the journey from Bath to Sittingbourne.

 

[MTN]

Perhaps I wasn't as clear as I intended. For St Pancras-Sittingbourne I was being offered a "reservation" where the train time is stated but no seat number is allocated. However, for Sittingbourne-St Pancras I was being offered nothing at all by way of a reservation.

Interesting, as it states booked train only on the booking / itenerary I have:

Journey: 1 Sittingbourne to Bath Spa
Ticket type: Advance Valid on chosen train only. Non refundable. Changeable for a fee before booked departure time.
Route: Via Slough
Outward journey: 20 Oct 2015
departs Sittingbourne at 09:37 travel by Train service provider Southeastern to station London St Pancras arrives 10:36
departs London St Pancras at 10:51 travel by London Underground to station London Paddington arrives at 11:06
departs London Paddington at 11:30 travel by Train service provider First Great Western to station Bath Spa arrives 12:59 ( seats reserved: Coach: D Seats: 52 )

 

[bb21]

The ticket should also say in the top right-hand corner how many coupons you should have. If 2 then all's well. If 3 then there is one missing. See example.

 

[MTN]

This one is pretty easy to tell. If her ticket number and reservation coupon number are consecutive for the two she already has, then no reservation coupon is printed or required for the HS1 leg. If they are missing a number in between, then there is a missing coupon. From your description, it sounds like the ticket is printed in the old style, so the coupon numbers should be easy to find.

Thanks, have made further enquiries with her, and it seems that this is the case. She has reservation coupon PAD - BTH, BTH -PAD, STP - SIT and her outward and advance tickets, but not for SIT - STP. And that was not issued.

Thank you all for your assistance.

As an aside, how would the train manager know what train she was booked on, or does it not matter? And why no coupon for the outward, but one for the return? Seems a bit strange to me
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The ticket should also say in the top right-hand corner how many coupons you should have. If 2 then all's well. If 3 then there is one missing. See example.

States 5 issued - which will be tickets + 3 reservation coupons

 

[bb21]

States 5 issued - which will be tickets + 3 reservation coupons

Might be best to ask her to take a picture of all coupons so we can have a look.

 

[MTN]

Might be best to ask her to take a picture of all coupons so we can have a look.

If possible may try later. Can't do so at the moment as am at work (just don't tell the boss I'm on this forum )

Will try when I get home.

 

[yorkie]

I thought you were saying she had had lost it! If it wasn't issued, then there is no issue (pardon the pun!)

As an aside, how would the train manager know what train she was booked on, or does it not matter?

They can ask to see all coupons and can see if the connecting service is "appropriate".

And why no coupon for the outward, but one for the return? Seems a bit strange to me

It's all very strange. There should be no coupons for these services in my opinion. But Southeastern and a few other TOCs are fudging the reservation system. This is evidently and understandably causing confusion.

 

[ASharpe]

I used quite a few EC & connections AP tickets on SWT where a counted place reservation would be expected on the SWT service I actually used, but by using a via point I avoided them. I used them a few dozen times and not once did a guard notice I didn't have a reservation for the non-reservable train I was on.

 

[gray1404]

I used quite a few EC & connections AP tickets on SWT where a counted place reservation would be expected on the SWT service I actually used, but by using a via point I avoided them. I used them a few dozen times and not once did a guard notice I didn't have a reservation for the non-reservable train I was on.

I don't quite get this but I am very interested...... You have used a SWT that does have counted place reservations however, by entering via points into the system, this means you have not received a counted place reservation..... how does this work exactly?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

It doesn't. It will be one of those fudged 'counted place' reservation coupons. (Shouldn't be allowed in my opinion, but that's another story...)

I am in principle against these counted place reservations, however, I guess that without such it would prevent the likes of London Midland, Southern, South West Trains and South Eastern offering cheap advance fares on some of their routes.

 

[yorkie]

I am in principle against these counted place reservations, however, I guess that without such it would prevent the likes of London Midland, Southern, South West Trains and South Eastern offering cheap advance fares on some of their routes.

It wouldn't prevent them selling cheap (Advance) tickets.

There is nothing to stop them offering seat reservations on their long distance services, or selling other fares at reasonable prices by other means.

 

[Clip]

States 5 issued - which will be tickets + 3 reservation coupons

One of those should be the receipt coupon.

 

[yorkie]

One of those should be the receipt coupon.

That depends on the machine used (or certainly used to), with some counting the receipt as a coupon and some not.

 

[Tetchytyke]

On the reservation coupon it will say MANDATORY RESERVATION X OF X.

If that's 1 OF 1 then you're in business; if it is 1 OF 2 then you have an issue.

 

[extendedpaul]

I raised this issue with Southeastern in the summer when my son and his friends went on a walking holiday alongside Hadrian's Wall.

I was advised that if the journey is wholly on Southeastern then travel is only permitted on the booked train. My son and his friends each saved almost £8 by booking railcard advances to St Pancras Intl on HS1 just a few days before travel. They already had advance tickets from Kings Cross on their outward journeys.

On their return they had tickets from Carlisle to our local Kent station. These included reservations on a train from St Pancras that allowed almost an hour to get there from Euston. I asked whether they were allowed to catch the previous train and was advised that they could. They did so with no issues.

Southeastern are currently offering advance on HS1 allowing travel either direct or the long way round for the same low fare. For example on Monday 26 October I can book to depart Chatham at 12.04 and reach St Pancras at 14.54 via Faverham, Ramsgate, Ashford and Ebbsfleet or depart at 12.54 and arrive St Pancras Intl at 13.37 direct via Gravesend and Ebbsfleet. £5.70 with railcard, £8.60 without.

A good opportunity for anyone visiting Kent to get a lot of High Speed travel for a little money but can't see many non-enthusiasts opting for an extra two hour journey !

 

[Starmill]

On the reservation coupon it will say MANDATORY RESERVATION X OF X.

If that's 1 OF 1 then you're in business; if it is 1 OF 2 then you have an issue.

I was about to suggest this as a definitive method of checking.

However, it seems perfectly clear that there was no problem because the 0937 Sittingbourne to St Pancras service is non-reservable. A reservation cannot be issued for a non-reservable train by defenition. Storm in a teacup.

As an aside, I did also notice that this service is claimed to convey First Class... hmm...

 

[talldave]

Southeastern are currently offering advance on HS1 allowing travel either direct or the long way round for the same low fare. For example on Monday 26 October I can book to depart Chatham at 12.04 and reach St Pancras at 14.54 via Faverham, Ramsgate, Ashford and Ebbsfleet or depart at 12.54 and arrive St Pancras Intl at 13.37 direct via Gravesend and Ebbsfleet. £5.70 with railcard, £8.60 without.

A good opportunity for anyone visiting Kent to get a lot of High Speed travel for a little money but can't see many non-enthusiasts opting for an extra two hour journey !

At the risk of being pedantic, you'll get less than 20 minutes of high speed travel

 

[swt_passenger]

I am in principle against these counted place reservations, however, I guess that without such it would prevent the likes of London Midland, Southern, South West Trains and South Eastern offering cheap advance fares on some of their routes.

If SWT or one of the others had no control whatsoever on their legs of a possible 'mainline TOC + connections' journey, how do you ensure that (for example) the ECML TOC doesn't sell loads of Advances to fill space on their down services to London arriving just before the evening peak, which then get people to Waterloo just in time to meet the start of the evening peak and its completely wedged trains?

 

[extendedpaul]

A single from Ebbsfleet to Stratford costs £15.90 for an 11 minute high speed journey so £8.60 for 20 minutes is still relatively speaking a lot for not a lot.

 

[MTN]

I was about to suggest this as a definitive method of checking.

However, it seems perfectly clear that there was no problem because the 0937 Sittingbourne to St Pancras service is non-reservable. A reservation cannot be issued for a non-reservable train by defenition. Storm in a teacup.

As an aside, I did also notice that this service is claimed to convey First Class... hmm...

There was no issue on the train as you say.

However, I am confused by the issues of being non-reservable versus booked train only. I understand that seat reservations are not available for many services, but in my experience I normally get a coupon stating the booked train time on it.

Obviously, confusion is the order of the day when using unfamiliar TOCs...