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Missing out stations

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stephy

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Just wondering how 'allowed' this is/how frequently it's used as a way of getting trains back on track?
On Thursday I was on a late-leaving Victoria>Worthing (well that was my destination not the terminus) train and as we got closer to Worthing all manner of stations were cut out as we were still late. Just wondering, does that not really affect some travellers? It was around 11am and the stations seemed really close together so maybe they thought it didnt matter so much?
 
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ValleyLines142

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I think it depends on how late the service is running. Down here in the Welsh Valleys, particularly where timings between trains are quite tight (especially with trains between Cardiff Central and Queen Street running every FIVE minutes each way!), any service that is normally fifteen minutes late or more normally runs non-stop.

Examples are as follows:
Cardiff to Penarth: fast to Penarth only, alight at Dingle Road on the return working
Cardiff to Barry Island/Bridgend via Rhoose: Barry and Barry Island only/all stations to Bridgend via Rhoose
Cardiff to Merthyr/Aberdare/Treherbert: Cardiff Queen Street, Radyr, Pontypridd, then all stations on corresponding branch
Cardiff to Rhymney: fast to Caerphilly, then Ystrad Mynach, then Bargoed and all stations up to Rhymney
Cardiff to Radyr via City Line: fast to Radyr, alight at stations on return service.
 

Harlesden

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I remember a Tuesday morning at London Paddington around 10:15AM when the seriously late Greenford service was announced as running non stop to Greenford.
I badly wanted to go on it but I was due in Windsor and was about to board a train for Slough
 

Bald Rick

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It is certainly allowed; every train that misses even just one stop counts as a cancellation in the stats though, even if it actually arrives at destination on time.
 

stephy

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Really?didnt know. I think lots of people are under the impression that stations are missed out so the train can reach the destination on time and not ruin the 'look how punctual we are' stats. So why do they do it - is it cos regardless of stats they need the train at its destination pretty close to the time it was meant to be there?
 

xfield

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They do it so that subsequent services running later in the day aren't also delayed - either that use the same train, staff, or any services running behind the train. I guess its worth the one cancellation vs. many other delayed services throughout the day.
 

EM2

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That's pretty much it, yes.
If it gets to destination too late, it'll miss its path on the return journey and probably on the rest of the journeys it is due to run that day. That'll mean it's delayed on all those journeys and all the passengers will suffer delays. And possibly passengers on other services following that one will be delayed too.
This way, fewer passengers are inconvenienced over a shorter period.
 

A-driver

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Really?didnt know. I think lots of people are under the impression that stations are missed out so the train can reach the destination on time and not ruin the 'look how punctual we are' stats. So why do they do it - is it cos regardless of stats they need the train at its destination pretty close to the time it was meant to be there?

It's not done to make punctuality look better but I agree that that is how the public see it! It's also not a decision taken lightly but is generally done as otherwise service recovery will be I possible.

Commuter trains often have turn arounds of 5-7 minutes either end of the journey. Therefore if a train is running 20mins late for whatever reason it will arrive at its final station possibly 15mins after it should have departed. It will take about 5 mins for the driver to change ends and get set up so the train will only get later. Approaching the rush hours this is a huge problem and so they often take this action as its the only way.

The other time it can often be done is with overcrowding but that is normally down to the driver/guard to decide and tell control. I have done it before in the morning peak with a short formed train. I think I should have been all stations to moorgate but by Hadley wood I was leaving people behind. I phoned control and told them that if I stopped anywhere else, especially Barnet, I risked not getting the doors closed at all and that it was so dangerously crowded on board that it could get nasty if more tried to get on. They agreed to let me run fast to Finsbury park.
 

Peter Mugridge

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15 or so years ago I had the great pleasure of enjoying a non stop run from Waterloo to Epsom; the departure was about 28 minutes late so the following Epsom was only 2 minutes behind so the skipped stops were of no real consequence to anyone; we also had the fast lines as far as Wimbledon... :)
 

RichJF

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In the evening peak or times of disruption, it is quite common for Horsham-LBG stoppers to miss out Salfords, Earlswood, East Croydon, Norwood, & New Cross Gate. I've seen Merstham/Coulsdon missed as well.

This is to ensure that the return leg leaves London Bridge as close to scheduled time as possible.

BTW I've seen a London Bridge to Bognor train go non-stop all the way to Horsham before!!!
 

Old Yard Dog

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Merseyrail have been know to ditch Chester - Liverpool passengers off at Hooton and then run empty stock to the loop to recover time.
 

TEW

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The other time it can often be done is with overcrowding but that is normally down to the driver/guard to decide and tell control. I have done it before in the morning peak with a short formed train. I think I should have been all stations to moorgate but by Hadley wood I was leaving people behind. I phoned control and told them that if I stopped anywhere else, especially Barnet, I risked not getting the doors closed at all and that it was so dangerously crowded on board that it could get nasty if more tried to get on. They agreed to let me run fast to Finsbury park.

FGW do that in the morning peak into Bristol. If one of the stoppers is short formed it will skip Oldfield Park and Keynsham because it wouldn't be able to pick people up and an HST stops additionally instead.
 

CarltonA

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There was a rare (for me anyway) instance of this on Chiltern the other week. Some safety inspection in a tunnel prompted the Gerrards Cross stopper to skip all stops to South Ruislip.
 

PHILIPE

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Not quite missing out stations, but terminating short to turn round on time for return service. Some years ago a Birmingham to Hereford service known for regular late running would be terminate at Ledbury, dump the passengers there in all kinds of weather, and expect them to wait for the next train where the service was hourly and no guarantee that it would come. Ledbury station is a little remote and unstaffed in the evening but matters were eventually brought to a head. One particular night, the passenger collectively refused to alight and, with threats of the police being called, they still sat tight. Eventually the train had to proceed to Hereford and they never tried it again. I cannot, at the moment, re0collect if it was in LM or Central days.
When I was working, there was an instruction that whatever the circumstances, passengers were not to be left at an unstaffed station so far as my Company was coccerned..
 

edwin_m

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I was on a Nottingham-Leeds a few years back that was severely delayed around Chesterfield so that at Sheffield it was only a few minutes ahead of the next Leeds fast via Barnsley. Having unloaded passengers for intermediate stops to catch that train, it was re-routed via Swinton and Westgate, managed a non-stop run and arrived almost on time!

If the Liverpool-Norwich is about 20 late at Stockport, and isn't one of the ones that makes Hope Valley stops, then it may get diverted via Dore South Curve to miss Sheffield and end up pretty much on time. Sheffield passengers are offloaded onto the Transpennine which will only be 10min or so behind.
 

southern442

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Sometimes stoppers from East Croydon to LBG go non stop from Sydenham. Also on Tattenham cnr race days they have trains fast to Purley Or Coulsdon.
 

lemonic

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An international example -
The EuroNight train between Amsterdam and Warsaw (with portions to Moscow, Copenhagen and Prague) is frequently delayed and this can lead to it not stopping at Dusseldorf, Koln (Cologne) and Wuppertal and travelling directly between Duisburg and Dortmund to make up time. Passengers from the omitted stations catch a regional or ICE train to/from Dortmund.

If you look at a map, it is clear how a train can make up time this way, since the train goes via Koln as it is an important international hub even though it is a bit of a detour.
 

38Cto15E

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A couple of years ago i was on the delayed 1206 Paddington to Penzance service, after Plymouth it was first stop Truro to make up some lost time. It was great going non stop through Liskeard, Bodmin, Par, St Austell.:lol:
 

Welshman

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I've known Northern run delayed Calder Valley services non-stop from Sowerby Bridge to Leeds but via Brighouse and Dewsbury rather than Halifax and Bradford. This seems to save 10 minutes or so by not stopping, and avoiding the reversal at Bradford Interchange.
 

Daz28

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My local station is one of those often missed out by Southeastern when they are in a hurry. It is desperately annoying to be stood on the platform and see your intended train go flying through, especially when the time saved by missing three stations is often only 3-5 minutes in total.

I once had the indignity of the "fast" train stopping at the station due to a signal but not opening the doors as the stop had been cancelled.
 

Smethwickian

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Some years ago a Birmingham to Hereford service known for regular late running would be terminate at Ledbury, dump the passengers there in all kinds of weather, and expect them to wait for the next train where the service was hourly and no guarantee that it would come. Ledbury station is a little remote and unstaffed in the evening but matters were eventually brought to a head. One particular night, the passenger collectively refused to alight and, with threats of the police being called, they still sat tight. Eventually the train had to proceed to Hereford and they never tried it again. I cannot, at the moment, re0collect if it was in LM or Central days.

From the Hereford Times, December 6, 2007, page 2: "Disgruntled passengers on a late-running Hereford train who were asked to take a non-existent bus service from Ledbury refused to budge – leaving its driver no other option but to complete the journey.
The trip didn’t start well for those on the 16.52 service from London Paddington when they found the train in darkness and it eventually set
off 20 minutes late.
So when First Great Western announced at Moreton-in-Marsh that the train was 35 minutes late and would terminate in Ledbury, a dozen or so remaining passengers decided to protest.
Dr Jeff Beatty, aged 65, had already arrived 45 minutes late for a meeting in the capital the same morning due to cancellations and had missed a connection earlier in the week due to delays.
He said: “I just snapped I’m afraid – but if it hadn’t been for the support of others on the train it would have come to nothing so there must have been a feeling there. There was a lady sitting next to me in the carriage and I asked her would she mind staying on until we could see the bus was there to take
us to Hereford and the vast majority of other people did the same.”
But with no sign of a bus at Ledbury, staff then said another train due at the station would be delayed if they refused to move.
Dr Beatty, from Whitney-on-Wye, said: “We were quite willing for our train to be shunted back on to the up-line to Paddington, but we were not prepared to alight while they did so. If, after the shunting process, another train
entered the station for Hereford, then – and only then – were we prepared to leave.”
But no train came and the bus showed no signs of arriving either, so after around 30 minutes, the train resumed its journey to Hereford, arriving more than an hour late at around 8.30pm. Dr Beatty added: “When First Great Western sells you a ticket the company is entering a contract to provide a service.”
First Great Western spokesperson Adrian Booth confirmed that no bus had been arranged for those alighting at Ledbury and did not know if the other train could have taken the Hereford-bound passengers as he did not know
where it was going. “I would like to apologise to any customers that were delayed by this service,” he added.
Dr Beatty and co’s revolt followed an almost identical journey for those travelling on one train back in October, 2005. Passengers on the 14.59 Birmingham to Hereford service were told the train would go no further than Ledbury but, after refusing to leave the carriages, got their journey back on track."

From the Hereford Times, November 3, 2005, front page: "PASSENGERS revolted when told that a late-running train to Hereford would go only as far as Ledbury – and got their journey back on track.
The rebels refused to leave the 14.59 from Birmingham New Street last Friday, sending a strong signal to rail bosses that fed-up travellers would not take being “dumped” at stations when delayed services stopped short.
Central Trains has apologised to those who made the stand and promised a number of actions to ensure its services are more reliable. A county transport watchdog saluted the unlikely alliance of mothers, students, day-trippers and commuters as doing more for rail’s cause in the county with their protest than hours of timetable talks.
Gerald Dawe, of Rail for Herefordshire, said that trouble on the county’s tracks was as bad as that on its roads but received a lot less attention. “Central is not the only operator stopping late trains short of Hereford and passengers are losing confidence.
We have had hundreds of similar complaints over the past three years,” said Mr Dawe.
He said that Herefordshire needed a dedicated rail officer to oversee – and fight for – service standards the way neighbouring counties did. Service operators are stopping late trains into Hereford at Worcester, Malvern or Ledbury to hit time targets
and avoid further delay, particularly over peak periods. Passengers who are put off the stopped trains have to wait for transport arranged by the operator or the next train if it is going the distance.
The 14.59 rebels stayed on board when asked to leave at Ledbury and together made it clear they were not going anywhere but Hereford. There were cheers the length of the train when the driver was given the go-ahead to finish the journey.
Almost all of the rebels had either been put off a service before or knew family and friends who were.
Pregnant and with a tired toddler in tow, Linsey Clark was a ready convert to the cause. “The train was already running late.
Stopping at Ledbury took things too far. We all just decided we weren’t getting off, ” she said.
Linsey’s mum Sharon said she had been put off a train at Worcester with several others – including two severely handicapped passengers and their carers – a week before. All had to wait for buses and cabs back. “They told us at Birmingham that
the train was late. People were soon saying it wouldn’t get to Hereford,” she said.
Central Trains told the Hereford Times that the 14.59 was behind schedule that afternoon because a member of staff had been assaulted between Birmingham and Nottingham, where the service started. “As a result of the long delays affecting
this service, the decision was made to terminate it at Ledbury to make up time and avoid further delays for this and other services,” said company spokeswoman Rachel Webster. Such decisions were only ever taken 'in exceptional circumstanmces'."
 
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WelshBluebird

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Cardiff to Merthyr/Aberdare/Treherbert: Cardiff Queen Street, Radyr, Pontypridd, then all stations on corresponding branch

If you are lucky! Lost count of the number of times services have run non stop between Ystrad Rhondda and Treherbert.

FGW do that in the morning peak into Bristol. If one of the stoppers is short formed it will skip Oldfield Park and Keynsham because it wouldn't be able to pick people up and an HST stops additionally instead.

Only had that happen once to me so far (been commuting between Oldfield Park and Keynsham since August). Was quite happy at having a HST rather than a 150, even if it is only a 7 minute journey!
 

tsr

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Off peak, Redhill is often skipped by fast services from London Victoria, due to even minor delays, but then again I have known many instances of trains running fast from London Bridge - and (more rarely) London Victoria. Redhill has been skipped a couple of times today alone. Fortunately, if a Northbound train is late enough, it wouldn't normally be of any benefit to wait for it anyway - it normally results in a delay to the passengers of no more than 10-15mins. On the other hand, the frequency of Southbound services may only be 1tph to each destination, so you could find a longer wait or the need to run around like a bit of a headless chicken at Gatwick Airport. Also, if stops are skipped during the peaks, things will soon become very overcrowded - so, on balance, skipping Redhill will be rarer at such times, though by no means unheard of.
 

trc666

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15 or so years ago I had the great pleasure of enjoying a non stop run from Waterloo to Epsom; the departure was about 28 minutes late so the following Epsom was only 2 minutes behind so the skipped stops were of no real consequence to anyone; we also had the fast lines as far as Wimbledon... :)

Shepperton or Kingston Loop services often end up running first stop Norbiton from London Waterloo if running more than 10 minutes late, and Chessington line trains can sometimes end up being first stop Raynes Park or fast all the way to Chessington South if running very late. Weymouth services occasionally get run fast to Southampton Central if more than half an hour late, but have seen at least one occasion where a train has been first stop Bournemouth after leaving London Waterloo over an hour late.
 

ValleyLines142

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If you are lucky! Lost count of the number of times services have run non stop between Ystrad Rhondda and Treherbert!

I have to admit I haven't seen services run fast from Ystrad Rhondd and Treherbert, but I have seen services terminate short at Porth (presumably there is a crossover along the line somewhere).
 

Muzer

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I always find it interesting when the opposite happens - "Please note that this train will additionally call at Clapham Junction" is not an uncommon thing to hear in SWT-land (on the West of England Main Line at least). Clearly they time it so precisely they know around an hour in advance when they'll have a spare path...
 

W230

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If the Liverpool-Norwich is about 20 late at Stockport, and isn't one of the ones that makes Hope Valley stops, then it may get diverted via Dore South Curve to miss Sheffield and end up pretty much on time. Sheffield passengers are offloaded onto the Transpennine which will only be 10min or so behind.
Interesting. I didn't know they did this. In my student days I used this service quite a bit and remember a few times when it was very late at Manchester, when travelling Norwich - Liverpool, it would often get terminated at Piccadilly (or was it Oxford Road) and then work back towards Norwich/Nottingham from there. I guess anyone west of Piccadilly missed out and had to get the next one but there would have been plenty other LPL - MAN services.

I know FCC (TL) often issue 'Not to Stop' orders when services get severely disrupted on the Brighton Mainline. The next service is generally only a few minutes behind and it helps get the return back on track and reduces the risk of delays having knock on effects through the day. There are generally not many minutes between turn around on these sorts of services, as A-driver has already mentioned.
 

Evvy73

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Funnily enough this happened to me last night for the first time in ages.

I caught the 17:23 LBG - EBN Southern Service, which departed about 10mins late. I was aiming for Wivelsfield.
It was announced that it would go fast from LBG to Haywards Heath, even missing out East Croydon (which surprised me!). After HHE it went to Lewes, Polegate and Eastbourne and that was it.

My initial thought was "Great, a nice fast journey to HHE!", but this backfired a bit as when I changed at HHE I then had to wait 23 minutes for a service to WVF, making me 35 minutes later in total getting to WVF than I should have been. :(
Despite being "Fast" between LBG and HHE the amount of times we had to stop due to congestion made me wonder if we did actually make up any time! The problems were (I believe) all due to a trespasser somewhere between Croydon and LBG.

On the plus side, the train was very quiet with a number of spare seats - a rarity on any Commuter Service leaving LBG in the evenings!
 
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