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Missile Strikes on Syria

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RichmondCommu

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Hmm I'm not sure there's enough information to make that judgement. For one do we know if those systems were even in the area at the time of the strike? Then I would question who was operating those systems. If Syrian personnel the likelihood is that no matter how technically capable the system is it probably isn't going to be used to best of its capabilities. Then there is a question of readiness to consider. Was the system manned and expecting an attack (particularly an attack from the Mediterranean) or was it on standby and taken by surprise?

Hmm. You would think that the Russians would be looking to protect anything that is strategically important to the Syrians which would surely include airbases. If the Russians really are keen to protect the Assad regime surely they would ensure that the air defence systems that they have supplied would be / are as effective as possible which would mean them being manned by people who know what they are doing.

In terms of readiness given that the Americans had already warned the Russians that they were about to launch an attack you would have thought that they would be ready and prepared. In any case what is the point in having an air defence system if the people manning it are having 40 winks? And if an attack wasn't going to come from the direction of the Med where else was it going to come from? If they are allowing themselves to be taken by surprise there isn't a lot of point in having a air defence system.
 
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RichmondCommu

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I would also question just how much of a true integrated air defence system Syria still has at this point. Does it still have a true network of radar systems along with with missile/gun systems with good control and direction?

Surely the Russians would have thought of that? Especially given that the Russians are saying that they've supplied Assad with their latest technology. There would be no point in selling the Syrians something to destroy planes / missiles with if the Syrians have no idea that any of those things are actually in the air.
 

najaB

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Surely the Russians would have thought of that? Especially given that the Russians are saying that they've supplied Assad with their latest technology. There would be no point in selling the Syrians something to destroy planes / missiles with if the Syrians have no idea that any of those things are actually in the air.
Again, tin foil hat time... What if Putin wanted Trump to have his pyrrhic victory?
 

zuriblue

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So for Trump it's win/win - you show the world that you're standing up to Assad and doing The Right Thing by swiftly responding to a chemical weapons atrocity. You also kill any suggestion that you're Putin's puppet. You pre warn Russia, knowing they'll warn Assad, giving them time to at least partially clear the airbase. It's a symbolic strike but the media will love it. But that's all great for Trump but what does Putin get out of all that? Is he also desperate to shake off the Trump/Russia links so he can keep Trump on a lead and sees this as a worth while small sacrifice, and his quick condemnation of the bombing pre planned to help break the link? I'm not sure he cares enough what the West think to go through all that.

A less conspiracy theory take on it is that Trump saw this as win/win (as above) so gave the order. Pre-warned Russia because if any Russian military were stationed there and the strikes took them out then nobody knows what Putin might do. Takes the plaudits. Putin is genuinely annoyed (to put it mildly) at Trump and has the motive and boldness to escalate and start a potential serious incident. But he probably won't. He's smart and I think he probably feels he's still in charge here.
 
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najaB

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So for Trump it's win/win - you show the world that you're standing up to Assad and doing The Right Thing by swiftly responding to a chemical weapons atrocity. You also kill any suggestion that you're Putin's puppet. You pre warn Russia, knowing they'll warn Assad, giving them time to at least partially clear the airbase. It's a symbolic strike but the media will love it. But that's all great for Trump but what does Putin get out of all that? Is he also desperate to shake off the Trump/Russia links so he can keep Trump on a lead and sees this as a worth while small sacrifice, and his quick condemnation of the bombing pre planned to help break the link? I'm not sure he cares enough what the West think to go through all that.

A less conspiracy theory take on it is that Trump saw this as win/win (as above) so gave the order. Pre-warned Russia because if any Russian military were stationed there and the strikes took them out then nobody knows what Putin might do. Takes the plaudits. Putin is genuinely annoyed (to put it mildly) at Trump and has the motive and boldness to escalate and start a potential serious incident. But he probably won't. He's smart and I think he probably feels he's still in charge here.
The question though is 'Why now?' Assad hadn't used nerve toxins since 2013 and is a lot more secure in his seat than he was then.
 

HSTEd

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The Russians have suggested in the past that they have supplied Syria with their latest air defence systems. If 23 missiles got through that would suggest to me that what the Russians have is not particularly effective against cruise missiles.

The equipment itslef is not the most important thing - the training and intelligence of the crews using the equipment is paramount. An ancient SA-3 battery claimed a stealth fighter over the former Yugoslavia after all, largely because the battery commander knew his business.

If Syrian Air Defence was able to destroy nearly two thirds of the inbound weapons that would bode extremely badly for any kind of sustained air campaign, attritional losses and lost sorties to SEAD missions (a plane hunting SAMs cant be bombing something useful that day) would render such a campaign enormously costly.
 

Butts

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The equipment itslef is not the most important thing - the training and intelligence of the crews using the equipment is paramount. An ancient SA-3 battery claimed a stealth fighter over the former Yugoslavia after all, largely because the battery commander knew his business.

If Syrian Air Defence was able to destroy nearly two thirds of the inbound weapons that would bode extremely badly for any kind of sustained air campaign, attritional losses and lost sorties to SEAD missions (a plane hunting SAMs cant be bombing something useful that day) would render such a campaign enormously costly.

I wonder if Syria is considering retaliation against the USA if Assad is genuinely innocent of launching the Sarin attack ?

Does anyone believe the USA has the first strike capability to render Syria's Armed Forces "a thing of the past" without setting foot on Syrian soil ?
 

najaB

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Does anyone believe the USA has the first strike capability to render Syria's Armed Forces "a thing of the past" without setting foot on Syrian soil ?
Indubitably. The only thing is that they would render the place uninhabitable in the process.
 

DarloRich

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From media reports it is held that Syria did have a very efficient anti aircraft missile system but that this has been degraded by conflict. The Russian have brought into the country their best systems to protect their equipment and key "regime locations" which did not extend to this airbase. Read into that what you will.

I think, firstly, these strikes were "the right thing to do" - you can not use chemical weapons. Of that there can be no doubt. ( and that message should have been made earlier)

However, there seems to be no plan, the strikes weren't designed to damage the regime or to preface a wider campaign and there is a sneaking suspicion it is all for show and that by following the proper deconfliction channels everyone was able to save face. I think Zuriblue ( below) has it right:

So for Trump it's win/win - you show the world that you're standing up to Assad and doing The Right Thing by swiftly responding to a chemical weapons atrocity. You also kill any suggestion that you're Putin's puppet. You pre warn Russia, knowing they'll warn Assad, giving them time to at least partially clear the airbase. It's a symbolic strike but the media will love it. But that's all great for Trump but what does Putin get out of all that? Is he also desperate to shake off the Trump/Russia links so he can keep Trump on a lead and sees this as a worth while small sacrifice, and his quick condemnation of the bombing pre planned to help break the link? I'm not sure he cares enough what the West think to go through all that.

A less conspiracy theory take on it is that Trump saw this as win/win (as above) so gave the order. Pre-warned Russia because if any Russian military were stationed there and the strikes took them out then nobody knows what Putin might do. Takes the plaudits. Putin is genuinely annoyed (to put it mildly) at Trump and has the motive and boldness to escalate and start a potential serious incident. But he probably won't. He's smart and I think he probably feels he's still in charge here.
 
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