Misreporting on FCC

[wyvfe1]

Misreporting on FCC

The below message seems to suggest the delays will only be between Hertford North and Moorgate, however nowdays the return train after arrival at Moorgate (from Hertford North) turns round and goes to WGC

i.e. The 08:05 from Moorgate to WGC is delayed and is shown to arrive 0854 at New Southgate should be 0826 (28 mins late)



--- From FCC website ---
Delays between Hertford North and Moorgate expected until 09:00

Safety checks of the line are being made at Crews Hill.
Because of this, trains between Hertford North and Moorgate may be delayed by up to 35 minutes.This is expected to continue until approximately 09:00.
Customers may use London Underground services on all reasonable routes.
To find out how this might affect your journey, please use the real time Journey Planner, or call TrainTracker on 0871 200 49 50.
Why not follow our Twitter alerts to get updates on this disruption?
More details
(Message Received: 08:15:28 19/08/2010)

 

[DavidBusDriver]

I would hazard a guess that due to the high frequency and more limited capacity at Moorgate, it would be inevitable that the train would be late out of Moorgate up to WGC after the turn-around - maybe not a case of mis-reporting but under-reporting the impact on services, totally unaware of the reason for the line examination on the Hertford North loop, but doesn't sound like it was planned in advance so not much else can really be done without affecting one service or another!

 

[Tomnick]

There's plenty of opportunity to swap diagrams around, I'm sure, so that a given Down Welwyn service could be formed out of a different Up arrival to that booked. Journeys aren't really being heavily affected anyway - unlike Hertford services, Welwyns shouldn't be heavily delayed en-route, so the passenger shouldn't notice much even if Welwyn trains are heavily delayed at origin - at worst, he'll be on an earlier (late-running) service than planned, but hopefully only a few minutes away from his planned departure (and arrival at Welwyn) times.

 

[Aictos]

There's plenty of opportunity to swap diagrams around, I'm sure, so that a given Down Welwyn service could be formed out of a different Up arrival to that booked. Journeys aren't really being heavily affected anyway - unlike Hertford services, Welwyns shouldn't be heavily delayed en-route, so the passenger shouldn't notice much even if Welwyn trains are heavily delayed at origin - at worst, he'll be on an earlier (late-running) service than planned, but hopefully only a few minutes away from his planned departure (and arrival at Welwyn) times.

Sorry but diagrams don't get swapped around that much, I know there was a fair amount of juggling the diagrams around on Saturday night but that was down to very exceptional circumstances due to the major disruption thanks to the 180 failing.

As to Welwyn services not being that heavily delayed on route, there was two trains last week starting from Welwyn with one train having door problems of course the next train was ready for a on time start but left 15 minutes late waiting for the signal even though it actually left ahead of the failed train!

Hence a 15 minute delay all the way to Moorgate calling all stations and then all stations to Hertford again with a 15 minute delay.

Now despite the fact that there was a second Hertford bound service right behind the heavily delayed Hertford, the heavily delayed Hertford still called all stations rather then come out of service at Alexandra Palace then run fast to Hertford with the second train picking up the passengers.

So that being said because there are a number of services which are basically Hertford to Welwyn via Moorgate or vice versa any delay on the incoming service does transfer to the outgoing working.

 

[wyvfe1]

A few months ago I arrived at Moorgate at 1856 for the 1912 which was showing as On-time.
Some handmade signs taped to the wall said that there are problems to trains via Hertford North and to make alternate arrangements via Tube and bus, and that the service to WGC was not effected.

at 1915 it showed "Delayed" The platform staff said it had in fact been cancelled, the next train to WGC was at 1937 but to get the 1922 and change at Finsbury for the connecting From Kings Cross train.

I said I thought that there where no trains via Hertford North i.e. the 1922
She said oh yes you'll need to wait for the 1937 or get the tube to Finsbury.

I waited for the 1937...which was also cancelled at 1945. I said to the Platform staff I thought the sign said no problems to WGC, (who promptly went and took them down) they said the incoming train forms the outward train to WGC. So I was told get the tube to Finsbury as trains where terminating and starting at Finsbury/Kings X.

I arrived at Finsbury around 2010 to chaos, the platform signs showed the train 1914 and 1924 "on time"

We where told the 2041 to Letchworth would be calling additionally at New Southgate, Oakleigh Park and New Barnet.
I got home at 2115 (2 hours late for a 20min journey) - had the disruption information been more accurate I could have taken the tube to Arnos Grove.

In the BR days I'm sure the WGC trains to Moorgate turned and went back to WGC, and the Hertford North turned and went back, when did they change. The way it works now is a problem on one branch effects both.

And my Oyster exit at New Southgate registered as an entry due to the timeout, and I was charged for 2 unresolved journeys.

 

[Tomnick]

If there were no Down departures to Hertford, what was happening to Up arrivals from Welwyn? That was my point - in those circumstances, I'd have thought it sensible to do a bit of set swapping where possible.

 

[jon0844]

My experience tells me that if I even get a sniff of problems, I'll jump on the northern line and go to King's Cross from Old Street. At least from King's Cross it's a little more open and I feel I have options (at worst, if the ECML is buggered, I can go to St Albans and get a bus/taxi over).

I've had a text to say that my train from Old Street may be delayed. Then I'll have one to say it's been cancelled. Later I might get a text to say it's on time (reinstated). Then I get to the platform and it was still cancelled! That is not fun - especially now you've got all those people making for the tube. Far better to go straight to it, even if the train did turn out to run as normal. Of course, I'm not going along the Hertford Loop, so these people don't have the same luxury - and going to King's Cross, then Finsbury Park or Alexandra Palace to change will probably mean trying to board a crush loaded train.

The text alerts, along with other information being fed around FCC on the GN side, seem to be suffering from problems that have afflicted it for most of the year. The delays on the platforms are silly - with trains being announced after the train has left, and the 'stand well away from the edge of...' warnings following a minute after the high-speed train has flown through the station.

I'll give them the benefit of the doubt though, as they are installing a new system which will hopefully fix that and the associated reporting by text and on the website.

One other thing I've noticed; they have ambient noise sensors at Old Street now (along with brand new help points) but they still blast out the audio at max volume. It's so loud that I've heard the announcements nearly drown out those made on the northern line platform - and the FCC platforms had the announcement a few seconds before, so it sounded terrible!