Mismatch: seats, windows & lights

[willmow]

A recent trip on an EMR (stinky) diesel service between St. Pancras and Sheffield reminded me to query the mismatch between the windows and lighting of the carriage and the seating arrangement. We found ourselves wedged in seats with almost no view, and without direct lighting (had to read by the light of my phone). The lights were aesthetically aligned with the windows, but neither bore any relation to where passengers were sitting. It appears that carriage designers make no provision for passenger convenience in the UK. My impression is that rolling stock abroad (at least as used by the TGV and Swiss Federal Railways) is more intelligently designed.

 

[Ducatist4]

Some operators reduce the seat pitch to get more seats in which is one reason for this. Also to create wheelchair spaces and so on. You often see the same thing on airplanes as well for the same reason.

 

[Bletchleyite]

While I'm generally a fan of warm lighting, I did note with the class 222 that that's done to extremes, with it almost orange, and I'd agree it's very much suboptimal.

 

[DanNCL]

On most UK trains the seats in first class line up with the windows. The windows are the same shape and size in every carriage which means they don’t line up properly in standard class.

 

[Will Mitchell]

Why aren’t the exteriors and interiors of modern trains co-designed? I think the answer is probably that it’s cheaper to build a generic metal tube and leave it to the operator to worry about the interior. But it’s a real shame and it surely can’t be beyond the wit of man to fix.

 

[BeijingDave]

A recent trip on an EMR (stinky) diesel service between St. Pancras and Sheffield reminded me to query the mismatch between the windows and lighting of the carriage and the seating arrangement. We found ourselves wedged in seats with almost no view, and without direct lighting (had to read by the light of my phone). The lights were aesthetically aligned with the windows, but neither bore any relation to where passengers were sitting. It appears that carriage designers make no provision for passenger convenience in the UK. My impression is that rolling stock abroad (at least as used by the TGV and Swiss Federal Railways) is more intelligently designed.

The windows don't line up with the seats on the latest flagship 'Fuxing' EMU sets in China (that run between Beijing and Shanghai in about five hours), if it's any consolation.

Personally, I don't mind being next to a panel (rather than a window), it can block out a very bright afternoon sun.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The windows don't line up with the seats on the latest flagship 'Fuxing' EMU sets in China (that run between Beijing and Shanghai in about five hours), if it's any consolation.

Personally, I don't mind being next to a panel (rather than a window), it can block out a very bright afternoon sun.

Asian countries don't seem to have the same appreciation for the view as European ones. Very often all the curtains/blinds on trains and buses are closed anyway.

 

[Mikey C]

Asian countries don't seem to have the same appreciation for the view as European ones. Very often all the curtains/blinds on trains and buses are closed anyway.

Indeed. I was on a South Korean high speed train in October, and got a minimal view of the scenery below the pulled down blinds.

 

[MCR247]

I’m not sure which lights you’re referring to but with EMR 222s there are some standard class carriages that were converted from first class when the units were reformed. The spotlights above the seats are in the ‘wrong’ place as the seating layouts changed during this conversion.

 

[BeijingDave]

Asian countries don't seem to have the same appreciation for the view as European ones. Very often all the curtains/blinds on trains and buses are closed anyway.

That's true, people prefer to sleep away a long joourney if they can.

 

[Envoy]

If it is only 1st class that has properly aligned seats and windows, then it is a poor deal for the majority. That being the case, scrap 1st class.

I note that the class 170’s have narrow pillars meaning a greater proportion of glass - a pity that not all trains are like this.

 

[BeijingDave]

If it is only 1st class that has properly aligned seats and windows, then it is a poor deal for the majority. That being the case, scrap 1st class.

I note that the class 170’s have narrow pillars meaning a greater proportion of glass - a pity that not all trains are like this.

Never. I wouldn't travel by train if 1st Class wasn't available on long-distance, given it has a sort of 'anti-idiot tax' where those who commit nuisance behaviour are kept out. Keep 1st Class, but align the windows in 2nd Class.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If it is only 1st class that has properly aligned seats and windows, then it is a poor deal for the majority. That being the case, scrap 1st class.

Interestingly the 397 has Standard aligned and 1st not. I do wonder if that's the right way round because a lot of people in 1st will either be working on laptops or distracted by the freebies.

What's really rubbish is the common mainland European situation of neither being aligned - ICEs and TGVs both often have this issue. Similarly the single seats on 80x in First Class are misaligned, all to squeeze in just one more seat - take it out and align them! You'd only have to put fares up by about a fiftieth to cover the costs.

 

[Mikey C]

Interestingly the 397 has Standard aligned and 1st not. I do wonder if that's the right way round because a lot of people in 1st will either be working on laptops or distracted by the freebies.

It feels completely wrong to pay more and have worse alignment, even if fewer people are impacted!

The Networkers had perfect seat/window alignment when introduced, and still are decent as the pillars are very slim. Indeed it's easier with commuter stock, as 1st class (if present) tends to have the same alignment as standard, unlike "Intercity" stock where 1st has greater legroom.

 

[satisnek]

The BR Mark 3 has a lot to answer for!

As for reading lights (and air vents) not lining up, there's nothing worse than a 53-seat road coach which has been converted to 57...

 

[Spartacus]

The BR Mark 3 has a lot to answer for!

As for reading lights (and air vents) not lining up, there's nothing worse than a 53-seat road coach which has been converted to 57...

The Mk3 had the same issue, designed for seating in the standard 1st class position, but this was somewhat negated by the very large windows and low seat backs. It was the same on many old DMUs, if the seats didn't match up it didn't really matter because the seats were so low.

There's long been that mismatch, even some Mk1s have it if you're in the wrong place, but with higher seat backs now it means that you're less likely to be able to see above or around the seat in front to be able to view a window like you could on old stock, so it's more noticeable now. Priorities have changed over the years too. For many years BR was simply trying to get enough people on many of it's trains, capacity wasn't a huge priority except on commuter routes. That's not been the case for quite some time now.