Misleading TfL poster about touching at Farringdon

[miklcct]

I have noticed that there is a poster stuck at the standalone validator at the Thameslink / Elizabeth line interchange at Farringdon.

It says:

Changing between National Rail and the Elizabeth line?

Don't forget to touch the yellow card reader to pay the correct fare.

Which, to my understanding, can lead to penalty fares if followed.

I regularly change between Thameslink and Elizabeth line while travelling on Oyster PAYG, and, if I touch the reader here, it will end my PAYG journey.

I think this reader is only for those who need to switch between PAYG and a traditional ticket at the station, am I right?

 

[Ralph Ayres]

Aaargh! You're right, there's even a special vinyl saying just that to stick on the validator. Looks like it's been locally produced to address a perceived problem, given the incorrect spelling of travelling and the random selection of tenuously-related instructions.

 

[Watershed]

I think this reader is only for those who need to switch between PAYG and a traditional ticket at the station, am I right?

Indeed. However, the signage does not make this clear. In its attempt to avoid people being charged for incomplete journeys it is putting them at risk of a Penalty Fare as you say - unless the read is set to continuation exit (which seems unlikely).

 

[MikeWh]

Validators within Farringdon station are supposed to be set for continuation exit. They have made a real pigs ear providing additional validators for the EL/TL interchange - misleading signage and siting them inappropriately for TLSB-EL.

 

[Hadders]

And there's no validator if you take the lift from the southbound Thameslink platform to the Elizabeth Line platforms.

 

[miklcct]

Indeed. However, the signage does not make this clear. In its attempt to avoid people being charged for incomplete journeys it is putting them at risk of a Penalty Fare as you say - unless the read is set to continuation exit (which seems unlikely).

I remember at some stations these validators have a note saying "National Rail ticket holders only", which is very specific that the validator is for starting / ending a PAYG journey while the passenger uses another ticket for the National Rail leg, but I can't remember which one. If I see one I will take a photo and post it here.

 

[Joe Paxton]

Indeed. However, the signage does not make this clear. In its attempt to avoid people being charged for incomplete journeys it is putting them at risk of a Penalty Fare as you say - unless the read is set to continuation exit (which seems unlikely).

I don't see why you say it's unlikely, as it seems very likely to me - that's the standard way stand-alone validators within paid areas are set up.

 

[zero]

But continuation exit still means your oyster will be shown as "touched out" if inspected by an RPI, doesn't it? Would be ok on contactless I guess.

 

[Joe Paxton]

But continuation exit still means your oyster will be shown as "touched out" if inspected by an RPI, doesn't it? Would be ok on contactless I guess.

No.

 

[janb]

Also adopting the eyes of someone not familiar with London I don't see a *yellow* card reader in that photo.

 

[Alex365Dash]

No.

I believe this would be fine with TfL RPIs, but National Rail RPIs specifically look for a maximum fare on an Oyster card - which as the validator will remove on touch out, will cause issues with Oyster card users continuing on Thameslink with Oyster and having a ticket inspection from a GTR RPI.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Mar 2023 ==

Also adopting the eyes of someone not familiar with London I don't see a *yellow* card reader in that photo.

You can thank Google Pay’s sponsorship for that

The outline behind the sticker’s in yellow, plus the screen would mention it being for interchange if it’s a pink reader.

 

[Dent]

Validators within Farringdon station are supposed to be set for continuation exit. They have made a real pigs ear providing additional validators for the EL/TL interchange - misleading signage and siting them inappropriately for TLSB-EL.

I thought continuation exit was only for exiting at the same station after touching a standalone reader. Would Continuation Exit mean that the correct fare would be charged if someone touched out on a standalone reader set to Continuation Exit, and then continued their journey and touched out at another station?

 

[Benjwri]

I thought continuation exit was only for exiting at the same station after touching a standalone reader. Would Continuation Exit mean that the correct fare would be charged if someone touched out on a standalone reader set to Continuation Exit, and then continued their journey and touched out at another station?

When someone touches out at a continuation exit reader it will record an exit, and remove the maximum fare for an Oyster card. As you mention any further touches at the same station will then be ignored for the next 15 minutes, for example if you then exit through a gateline. Continuation exit also means that if someone continues their journey and then proceeds to tap at another station (Within maximum journey time from the initial tap in) the journey will be adjusted to the new end point of this tap.

(A side note but I don't believe a continuation exit can work as a pink reader, so a continuation exit tap would not give you an avoiding Zone X fare)

 

[MikeWh]

(A side note but I don't believe a continuation exit can work as a pink reader, so a continuation exit tap would not give you an avoiding Zone X fare)

Correct. Most of the stations with validators inside the gateline do not also have pink readers, but the two are not interchangeable.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Mar 2023 ==

You can thank Google Pay’s sponsorship for that

The outline behind the sticker’s in yellow, plus the screen would mention it being for interchange if it’s a pink reader.

Indeed. The sponsored stickers are all in place of yellow readers. Pink readers are definitely pink.

 

[Snow1964]

Indeed. The sponsored stickers are all in place of yellow readers. Pink readers are definitely pink.

So if the poster is supposed to be instructions (and if not, why have it), would it not have been sensible to show the correct photo of validators in their current colour scheme, rather than a historic yellow colour, which a person new to London might never have encountered.

 

[sheff1]

So, if I have understood correctly, the notice tells people to touch on a yellow reader when, in fact, many should not do so ….. and, for those who should, there is no yellow reader as depicted to use anyway.

Thank goodness for the simplicity offered by PAYG.

 

[Harryeurostar]

I was in a rush with my whole family changing at Farrington.. didn't see that it wasn't pink -_- we all got penalty fares for an incomplete journey, now I know not to do it again though!

 

[MikeWh]

I was in a rush with my whole family changing at Farrington.. didn't see that it wasn't pink -_- we all got penalty fares for an incomplete journey, now I know not to do it again though!

Can you describe your whole journey, where you touched in and out, and what you were charged. If you can copy journey history from an online account all the better. It seems like something may have gone wrong here.

 

[Harryeurostar]

I've had a deeper look and it turns out that that penalty fare was for forgetting to tap out somewhere else on the line that day, I was traveling from the Elizabeth line to Thamslink here at Farrington and it looks like the system noticed that I tapped out, tapped in (at this reader) and then tapped out at the oyster readers for national rail and then tapped out at the readers at London Bridge (my destination) and treated it as a continued journey! Hopefully this means that other people who have made this mistake won't have been charged a penalty fare either

 

[bobster1001]

I have changed many times from Thameslink to the Elizabeth Line and tapped this reader. I haven't noticed a penalty fare any time.

 

[miklcct]

I have never touched the reader when changing between Thameslink and Elizabeth line and I have never been charged the wrong fare.

 

[MikeWh]

I have changed many times from Thameslink to the Elizabeth Line and tapped this reader. I haven't noticed a penalty fare any time.

I have never touched the reader when changing between Thameslink and Elizabeth line and I have never been charged the wrong fare.

Just to clarify. The 'penalty' that might be charged is just an incomplete journey, unless you are intercepted by inspectors who don't realise what's going on. If you are making a PAYG journey via Farringdon, then not touching there is the correct thing, or touching in and out at the street level gatelines if you end up following that route. If you do touch the yellow readers in the middle of the journey, then it shouldn't make a difference thanks to the continuation exit.

My concern is if I hear about someone not being charged correctly having touched the yellow reader between EL and TL. That would suggest that continuation exit is not set correctly. I've no reason to suspect that at the moment, but it is a worry.

 

[fandroid]

There's a similar notice at Finsbury Park in the subway by the Tube stairs which orders us to touch the yellow reader (it is still yellow there!) before descending. I ignore it as I'm travelling from Blackfriars (Thameslink) to Walthamstow and I'm sure I don't get overcharged.

 

[miklcct]

I've just taken a photo of the notice at Highbury & Islington saying "National Rail ticket holders only".

 

[maniacmartin]

Why they can't just word the sign "Touch if changing between Oyster and another ticket" beats me

 

[infobleep]

Why they can't just word the sign "Touch if changing between Oyster and another ticket" beats me

What is your other ticket isn't for National Rail? Is that possible?

 

[MikeWh]

What is your other ticket isn't for National Rail? Is that possible?

Technically, but if you're using Oyster for travel you are hardly likely to be buying paper tickets for the Underground at 3x the PAYG price.

 

[infobleep]

Technically, but if you're using Oyster for travel you are hardly likely to be buying paper tickets for the Underground at 3x the PAYG price.

Very true. I just wondered if there was anything besides those underground paper tickets.

 

[Dent]

Technically, but if you're using Oyster for travel you are hardly likely to be buying paper tickets for the Underground at 3x the PAYG price.

The instruction would still be correct in that case anyway.

 

[Surreytraveller]

What is your other ticket isn't for National Rail? Is that possible?

The confusing thing is, London Overground is National Rail. It is also TfL
The signs should read as it does at Highbury, touch only if starting or ending an Oyster/ Contactless journey