Misleading from LNER

[bakerstreet]

Looked up a journey on LNER.
Might go back to book it.

Received an email saying (I’ve anonymised it - my bold)

, your trip from X to Y is just a few clicks away! Finish booking your train tickets now to bag the best spot onboard. Plus, unlike other retailers, we don't charge a booking fee!

A majority of ‘other’ retailers charge no booking fee. This suggests LNER are the only one that does not.

Is this misleading?

Better would be - unlike some retailers, we don’t charge a booking fee.

I get very frustrated with companies who willingly mislead.

 

[Horizon22]

I don't think it reads like that at all.

"Other retailers" just suggests that others may charge a booking fee, which is true.

Okay they could have written "unlike some other retailers" but that is semantics and I don't think it is misleading.

 

[Gaelan]

And of course the "other retailer" the vast majority of their customers will be using is Trainline, which does.

 

[AdamWW]

Looked up a journey on LNER.
Might go back to book it.

Received an email saying (I’ve anonymised it - my bold)



A majority of ‘other’ retailers charge no booking fee. This suggests LNER are the only one that does not.

Is this misleading?

Better would be - unlike some retailers, we don’t charge a booking fee.

I get very frustrated with companies who willingly mislead.

My interpretation of that would certainly be that they are unique in not charging - and it would be quite easy to think that the only way to avoid a booking fee would be to book directly.

I don't think this is just semantics and I cannot see any reason not to say "unlike some retailers" other than a deliberate attempt to deceive.

Of course this pales into insignificance compared to their attempts to sell large fare increases and removal of flexibiility as somehow an improvement for passengers.

 

[bakerstreet]

I don't think it reads like that at all.

"Other retailers" just suggests that others may charge a booking fee, which is true.

Okay they could have written "unlike some other retailers" but that is semantics and I don't think it is misleading.

Surely in normal language that’s not the case.

Eg

‘unlike other cars in my fleet this one’s electric.’

I would take that to mean that this is the only electric car.

‘Unlike some other cars in my fleet this one’s electric.’

There is more than one electric car.

 

[yorkie]

It is misleading, but they will get away with it.

They do similar with seat selection and more.

They really don't want people booking through us; we can undercut their high fares, and I suspect they want the data that they get when people book directly with them.

LNER try every trick in the book, but who is going to stop them? There is no effective ombudsman, watchdog or regulator who has the necessary knowledge, independence, powers and will to actually do anything.

 

[AlterEgo]

I also agree this is misleading; the sentence clearly implies that LNER are unique in not charging.

 

[greatkingrat]

It is misleading, but they will get away with it.

They do similar with seat selection and more.

They really don't want people booking through us; we can undercut their high fares, and I suspect they want the data that they get when people book directly with them.

LNER try every trick in the book, but who is going to stop them? There is no effective ombudsman, watchdog or regulator who has the necessary knowledge, independence, powers and will to actually do anything.

Trainsplit use exactly the same wording as LNER though!

https://trainsplit.com/split-tickets

"Unlike other retailers, Trainsplit don't charge a booking fee"

 

[bakerstreet]

Trainsplit use exactly the same wording as LNER though!

https://trainsplit.com/split-tickets

"Unlike other retailers, Trainsplit don't charge a booking fee"

I’ve quoted the full text of what LNER sent me by email.

You have partially quoted the short paragraph on TrainSplit

Here it is in full (my bold)

[https://trainsplit.com/split-tickets]

#4 Say NO to booking fees​

Some sites charge a booking fee just for using them. Trainline for example, charges up to £1.75 booking fee on their site. Unlike other retailers, Trainsplit don't charge a booking feee
If a split ticketing saving is found a small percentage of the saving is charged so we can continue to maintain and further develop the site for a seamless user experience, but in all instances this still works out cheaper than buying anywhere else. If there is no saving by splitting the fare, no fees are charged.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Booking fee no, but a share of saving is charged for splits, which Trainline does not. On the day on the app Trainline charges no additional fees at all.

That doesn't mean to say the share of saving is unreasonable - but I think sites do need to be careful what they claim either way. Trainsplit should probably say "for a through ticket...", really.

 

[bakerstreet]

Booking fee no, but a share of saving is charged for splits, which Trainline does not. On the day on the app Trainline charges no additional fees at all.

That doesn't mean to say the share of saving is unreasonable - but I think sites do need to be careful what they claim either way. Trainsplit should probably say "for a through ticket...", really.

I think Trainsplit make that clear too.

I’ve also now put that in bold

 

[bcarmicle]

but in all instances this still works out cheaper than buying anywhere else

Is this true? I thought some splits were cheaper on Trainline if their fee were less than Trainsplit's share of savings fee.

 

[yorkie]

Trainsplit use exactly the same wording as LNER though!

Are you sure it is exactly the same?

I’ve quoted the full text of what LNER sent me by email.

You have partially quoted the short paragraph on TrainSplit

Here it is in full (my bold)

Thanks; in context, I think it's not unreasonable.

If said on its own, without any caveats, which is what LNER are doing, I think that is misleading.

Is this true? I thought some splits were cheaper on Trainline if their fee were less than Trainsplit's share of savings fee.

It would have been true when written, but yes there are occasions these days when the overall cost, with Trainline, including a booking fee, can be less than Trainsplit's total price. Therefore, the wording should now be changed accordingly.

However, it is also worth noting that Trainline often don't produce the best splits.

Is this true? I thought some splits were cheaper on Trainline if their fee were less than Trainsplit's share of savings fee.

If the splits are the same, or not much better, then yes that can happen.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Is this true? I thought some splits were cheaper on Trainline if their fee were less than Trainsplit's share of savings fee.

Correct.

 

[Adam Williams]

It would have been true when written, but yes there are occasions these days when the overall cost, with Trainline, including a booking fee, can be less than Trainsplit's total price. Therefore, the wording should now be changed accordingly.

This; the article is years old at this point. It predates other retailers and TOCs attempting to develop their own split ticketing offerings and customers would've only been offered a through ticket elsewhere. The main "alternative retailer of splits" that the article discusses is the ticket office with a knowledgeable member of staff!

I've made some small tweaks to try and ensure it's not entirely inaccurate if it's being read in 2024 but really it needs an overhaul. Thankfully it doesn't get a huge amount of traffic, and I'm not convinced it's actually linked from anywhere on the main site..

 

[Mike@Raileasy]

Looked up a journey on LNER.
Might go back to book it.

Received an email saying (I’ve anonymised it - my bold)



A majority of ‘other’ retailers charge no booking fee. This suggests LNER are the only one that does not.

Is this misleading?

Better would be - unlike some retailers, we don’t charge a booking fee.

I get very frustrated with companies who willingly mislead.

The current RDG "Nothing Beats Being" radio advertising campaign is the same, it says for the "best fares" go to nationalrail.co.uk. Independent retailers (with cheaper splits) aren't on that.

 

[paul1609]

The current RDG "Nothing Beats Being" radio advertising campaign is the same, it says for the "best fares" go to nationalrail.co.uk. Independent retailers (with cheaper splits) aren't on that.

Are Raileasy/trainsplit/uk railforums suggesting that the straight through cross london advance that they suggest for a majority of my cross london journeys woulld actually be cheaper booked via Trainline with the fee and 5% immediate cashback on American Express? Even without taking the rewards points that I can convert to Virgin red points for use on future tickets on Virgin train Tickets?
Surely its very fine margins? If we need to accept the need for third party retailers we need to accept that its a free market.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The current RDG "Nothing Beats Being" radio advertising campaign is the same, it says for the "best fares" go to nationalrail.co.uk. Independent retailers (with cheaper splits) aren't on that.

I think it's a given that anything that RDG says is unlikely to be in the passenger's interest.

 

[yorkie]

Are Raileasy/trainsplit/uk railforums suggesting that the straight through cross london advance that they suggest for a majority of my cross london journeys woulld actually be cheaper booked via Trainline with the fee and 5% immediate cashback on American Express? Even without taking the rewards points that I can convert to Virgin red points for use on future tickets on Virgin train Tickets?

I don't know what fares you are talking about, but if you can provide an example itinerary we can take a look.

Surely its very fine margins?

It can be, though there can also be some spectacular savings to be made ; the recent ECML closure demonstrated how we were offering very cheap journeys for travel on LNER whole LNER were charging a fortune for journeys on EMR, for almost the same time except ours was just three minutes longer .

If we need to accept the need for third party retailers we need to accept that its a free market.

Of course; it's a free market however LNER appears to be potentially abusing a dominant market position, by bombarding passengers with misleading information.

 

[miklcct]

It is misleading, but they will get away with it.

They do similar with seat selection and more.

They really don't want people booking through us; we can undercut their high fares, and I suspect they want the data that they get when people book directly with them.

LNER try every trick in the book, but who is going to stop them? There is no effective ombudsman, watchdog or regulator who has the necessary knowledge, independence, powers and will to actually do anything.

Last year I made a complaint to Advertising Standards Authority about a false claim on the LNER website. It claimed that "it offers the only direct train from Newcastle to London King’s Cross" which was clearly false. The statement has since then removed.

 

[yorkie]

Last year I made a complaint to Advertising Standards Authority about a false claim on the LNER website. It claimed that "it offers the only direct train from Newcastle to London King’s Cross" which was clearly false. The statement has since then removed.

Good, but there won't be any repercussions for LNER, so they won't be bothered about that (unlike LNER passengers who break a rule!)

 

[800Travel]

Last year I made a complaint to Advertising Standards Authority about a false claim on the LNER website. It claimed that "it offers the only direct train from Newcastle to London King’s Cross" which was clearly false. The statement has since then removed.

Was that claim perhaps added to the site in pre-Lumo days? I do think these sites should be regularly reviewed!

 

[infobleep]

Last year I made a complaint to Advertising Standards Authority about a false claim on the LNER website. It claimed that "it offers the only direct train from Newcastle to London King’s Cross" which was clearly false. The statement has since then removed.

Did the ASA uphold your complaint or was the advert just removed coincidentally?

 

[miklcct]

Did the ASA uphold your complaint or was the advert just removed coincidentally?

It sent an advice to LNER.

 

[Mike@Raileasy]

Are Raileasy/trainsplit/uk railforums suggesting that the straight through cross london advance that they suggest for a majority of my cross london journeys woulld actually be cheaper booked via Trainline with the fee and 5% immediate cashback on American Express? Even without taking the rewards points that I can convert to Virgin red points for use on future tickets on Virgin train Tickets?
Surely its very fine margins? If we need to accept the need for third party retailers we need to accept that its a free market.

If by "free" you mean a level playing field (in the retailing market), that is exactly what independent retailers have been/are asking for. Fortunately GBRTT recognises the importance of that as opposed to the "incumbents".

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Mar 2024 ==

Of course; it's a free market however LNER appears to be potentially abusing a dominant market position, by bombarding passengers with misleading information.

They have been "bombarding" a customer of ours - who happens to be a shareholder - to book direct; we assume they got his contact details from him signing up for wi-fi on a recent trip. They have offered a 20% discount which, if we did, would take us with retailing costs/charges about 4 further bookings to break even. That could be a long wait. Even without the additional funding for this "marketing" initiative, we wonder where the taxpayer is getting better value.

 

[yorkie]

If by "free" you mean a level playing field (in the retailing market), that is exactly what independent retailers have been/are asking for. Fortunately GBRTT recognises the importance of that as opposed to the "incumbents".

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Mar 2024 ==


They have been "bombarding" a customer of ours - who happens to be a shareholder - to book direct; we assume they got his contact details from him signing up for wi-fi on a recent trip. They have offered a 20% discount which, if we did, would take us with retailing costs/charges about 4 further bookings to break even. That could be a long wait. Even without the additional funding for this "marketing" initiative, we wonder where the taxpayer is getting better value.

Yep I am sure LNER will be subsidising the retail side of things, which ultimately will be paid for by taxpayers. An FOI request may yield some information, but I suspect they'd say it was "commercially sensitive"!

 

[paul1609]

Yep I am sure LNER will be subsidising the retail side of things, which ultimately will be paid for by taxpayers. An FOI request may yield some information, but I suspect they'd say it was "commercially sensitive"!

Isnt that the same as any retail market though? For instance Accor Hotels direct will match any price i can get through Booking.com, Expedia etc including any cashback deals and will often give me free perks like car parking and breakfast on top for having the cheek to ask!

 

[Mike@Raileasy]

Isnt that the same as any retail market though? For instance Accor Hotels direct will match any price i can get through Booking.com, Expedia etc including any cashback deals and will often give me free perks like car parking and breakfast on top for having the cheek to ask!

I'm not sure this is exactly what you mean but fortunately the vast majority of customers booking splits appear to just book where they find them. As opposed to the tricky and time consuming process of trying to book 4/5/6 splits individually on a TOC site. Some people do but for those that might think about it for whatever reason, they probably end up realising that, if there weren't retailers offering splits, train operators wouldn't step into the breach.

 

[furlong]

Isnt that the same as any retail market though? For instance Accor Hotels direct will match any price i can get through Booking.com, Expedia etc including any cashback deals and will often give me free perks like car parking and breakfast on top for having the cheek to ask!

No it is absolutely not the same as "any retail market". This one is highly-regulated! Accor Hotels has the choice whether or not to offer its rooms on Booking.com and freedom to vary prices and commissions. LNER cannot choose whether or not to let each particular third party offer its fares and cannot adjust those fares or the commission retailer-by-retailer.

 

[yorkie]

Isnt that the same as any retail market though? For instance Accor Hotels direct will match any price i can get through Booking.com, Expedia etc including any cashback deals and will often give me free perks like car parking and breakfast on top for having the cheek to ask!

If Accor become taxpayer funded and run by Directly Operated Hotels and we have a Staying Settlement Agreement, etc and a common set of hotels data, with all hotels able to sell each others property, and inter-availability between hotels, then I'll get into the comparison, but until that day happens)), you just can't really compare.