Misleading e-mail from TfL

[Paul Kelly]

I've just received the following e-mail from TfL, encouraging me to use Contactless instead of Oyster for my journeys in London. It strongly implies that I will be charged the same price as with Oyster. But it's not true, as I have a railcard discount (Annual Gold Card, actually), added to my Oyster. So using Contactless will be more expensive for off-peak journeys, and the daily cap will be higher.

Dear Mr Indigo2,

Instead of using Auto Top-up on your Oyster card, you may wish to use contactless to pay as you go.

With contactless, you’re charged the same adult-rate fare as Oyster and you can benefit from weekly as well as daily capping.

To find out more about the benefits of weekly capping, click on the image in this email or click here

Yours sincerely,

Shashi Verma
Chief Technology Officer & Director of Customer Experience

So my question/comment is, I'm surprised they don't know that there is a railcard discount added to my Oyster. Is this information not held in a database anywhere? Is it solely stored on the Oyster card itself? Does anyone know?

 

[NSEFAN]

I get the impression that TfL only supports railcards because of legacy reasons, rather than because it wants to...

 

[westv]

I got the same email.
Why would I want to have to get my wallet out and then get my debit card out of my wallet every time I tap in/out when I can just take out my Oyster card in it's own cover?

 

[Deerfold]

I got the same email.
Why would I want to have to get my wallet out and then get my debit card out of my wallet every time I tap in/out when I can just take out my Oyster card in it's own cover?

I put a contactless card in a rail ticket wallet - this ensures I always use the same card and is no more difficult than using Oyster.

 

[gray1404]

Did you not used to be the case that you could only get a Railcard discount on All Zone (1-6) Travelcards and National Rail fares within London? So actually TfL extended their acceptance of railcards by now offering a discount on single fares not involving National Rail.

 

[Clip]

Probably a generic email sent out to users with a registered Oyster.

 

[gray1404]

Yes, sent out to many people regardless if they have a railcard or other discount attached to their Oyster card. I do have an Oyster with a railcard discount attached but did not receive the said email.

 

[causton]

The email gets out of it by saying "adult-rate" and of course that's what they mean, it made perfect sense to the person writing the email, without actually telling people it's not true

 

[gordonthemoron]

presumably foreign tourists would do better with Oyster than contactless (if they have one)?

 

[Deerfold]

presumably foreign tourists would do better with Oyster than contactless (if they have one)?

Why ?

 

[crehld]

Why ?

Service changes applied to most credit and debit cards when making transactions in a foreign currency (unless you have one of the few cards which doesn't levy such charges).

 

[Deerfold]

Service changes applied to most credit and debit cards when making transactions in a foreign currency (unless you have one of the few cards which doesn't levy such charges).

I do, which is why I didn't see your point. I agree that for visitors who have a card with such charges that are not a flat percentage, Oyster may be better.

 

[MikeWh]

So my question/comment is, I'm surprised they don't know that there is a railcard discount added to my Oyster. Is this information not held in a database anywhere? Is it solely stored on the Oyster card itself? Does anyone know?

I'm sure it is held on the database, though frustratingly the information isn't displayed online as part of the card summary.

I got the same email.
Why would I want to have to get my wallet out and then get my debit card out of my wallet every time I tap in/out when I can just take out my Oyster card in it's own cover?

Depending on your useage you may find that contactless charges less than Oyster because of the improved capping calculations.

Did you not used to be the case that you could only get a Railcard discount on All Zone (1-6) Travelcards and National Rail fares within London? So actually TfL extended their acceptance of railcards by now offering a discount on single fares not involving National Rail.

Yes, originally the railcard discount only applied to caps, plus any single fares which included a National Rail element. Extending it to all rail fares was one of a number of welcome simplifications which have been introduced along the way.

Yes, sent out to many people regardless if they have a railcard or other discount attached to their Oyster card. I do have an Oyster with a railcard discount attached but did not receive the said email.

Is your Oyster card registered and linked to an online account?

The email gets out of it by saying "adult-rate" and of course that's what they mean, it made perfect sense to the person writing the email, without actually telling people it's not true

Sadly you are right. TfL are making such an effort to switch people to contactless it often isn't abundantly clear that it's full adult fares only.

 

[gray1404]

Yes, mine is linked and registered to an online account.

 

[MikeWh]

Yes, mine is linked and registered to an online account.

In which case I would have expected you to have the email. Junk? Spam?

 

[gray1404]

No not received it at all. And I do get emails from them from time to time. I have just checked spam too and it is not there either.

 

[maniacmartin]

I also have an Oyster linked to an online account and have not received this email.

 

[PeterC]

I have just checked spam too and it is not there either.

Some email providers may totally reject seemingly random bulk emails and refuse to even deliver them to their customers' spam folders.

I know of cases with other organsiations where a particular mailing is simply never delivered by one email provider. (Yahoo is one of worst but not the only culprit)

 

[SickyNicky]

Some email providers may totally reject seemingly random bulk emails and refuse to even deliver them to their customers' spam folders.

I know of cases with other organsiations where a particular mailing is simply never delivered by one email provider. (Yahoo is one of worst but not the only culprit)

This is true. When we send a confirmation email for a TrainSplit booking, we keep a record of the SMTP transaction with the mail server. We can then point to this when the customer rings to say they didn't receive the email. It shows that their email provider received the email, but we know no more about what they did with it after that. They didn't attempt to reject or bounce it back to us.

In those circumstances, what are you supposed to do? We're categorically not on any spam blacklists.

I have also not received the email from TfL, by the way. Maybe it's because they know I have a disabled persons railcard attached to my Oyster, but it's more likely that they're staggering the spam email over a few days.

 

[njr001]

I've received the email despite having a senior rail card discount applied to my PAYG Oyster and my last name begins with R.

Maybe it should be a new thread, is there any technical reason why discounts can't be applied to a registered contactless card?

 

[Paul Kelly]

I'm sure it is held on the database, though frustratingly the information isn't displayed online as part of the card summary.

If you're 100% sure I will bow to your superior knowledge. It just struck me as the kind of thing there might not be a facility for it being transmitted to the "back end" when the discount is added or removed at an Oyster sales point, as there is no real "transaction" taking place - there's no money changing hands at that point in time, and it could be that it's just lumped in as "viewing/editing card details" or something like that, and not transmitted as a transaction.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Maybe it should be a new thread, is there any technical reason why discounts can't be applied to a registered contactless card?

Having thought about some of the issues, I wonder if the backend system for Contactless just doesn't support anything other than full price adult fares? Maybe they have done a quick job just to get that working to start with?

A more serious non-technical problem is of course that there will be nothing on the card itself to indicate that the railcard is added, so how does a ticket inspector know to ask you to produce the railcard? The same applies to other discount entitlements.

 

[Deerfold]

In which case I would have expected you to have the email. Junk? Spam?

I didn't get the email either. Though I did get a different publicity email from TfL on the same day.

 

[DelayRepay]

I have a slightly different problem with this email: I stopped using Oyster and went back to CPC when my railcard expired and I didn't need to renew it for a few weeks.

I needed to go to Tower Hill and caught the 15 bus. Some buses on this route are operated by Routemasters. The conductor told me I could not use CPC, only Oyster. I said I thought CPC was valid throughout TFL. He said it was but not on his bus and I should have read the Terms and Conditions. He went on to tell me that I should consider myself lucky that the Inspector was not on board otherwise I would have got a fine.

I got off his bus and caught a proper one.

 

[MikeWh]

I have a slightly different problem with this email: I stopped using Oyster and went back to CPC when my railcard expired and I didn't need to renew it for a few weeks.

I needed to go to Tower Hill and caught the 15 bus. Some buses on this route are operated by Routemasters. The conductor told me I could not use CPC, only Oyster. I said I thought CPC was valid throughout TFL. He said it was but not on his bus and I should have read the Terms and Conditions. He went on to tell me that I should consider myself lucky that the Inspector was not on board otherwise I would have got a fine.

I got off his bus and caught a proper one.

Do the routemasters carry the red roundel? If they do then they should accept both Oyster and Contactless according to https://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments/fares/bus-and-tram. I would take this further and seek clarification from the helpdesk.

 

[DelayRepay]

Do the routemasters carry the red roundel? If they do then they should accept both Oyster and Contactless according to https://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments/fares/bus-and-tram. I would take this further and seek clarification from the helpdesk.

They do - there is a picture of one of the buses here.

But the conductor was right, TFL's contactless terms and conditions do say:

2.1 You can use your contactless payment card to pay as you go on bus, Tube,tram, DLR, London Overground, TfL Rail, Emirates Air Line, Thames Clippers River Buses and National Rail services where pay as you go is accepted. On London’s buses, you cannot use your contactless payment card on routes 402 and 477 as shown in Note A3 of TfL’s Conditions of Carriage or on Heritage Routemasters which operate some journeys on route 15.

I guess the Routemasters are intended mainly for tourists, but a lot of tourists from the UK will probably want to use contactless instead of Oyster. For me I occasionally jump on the Routemaster if it's the first bus that comes on the 15 route, rather than waiting for a modern bus.

 

[furlong]

I wonder what the Advertising Standards Authority would make of that limitation. E.g. "Go Contactless, Go Anywhere except routes 402 and 477 or Heritage Routemasters which operate some journeys on route 15." doesn't quite have the same ring to it...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
"Contactless. The same fare as Oyster except when using bus routes 402, 477 or Heritage Routemasters which operate some journeys on route 15."

 

[DelayRepay]

"Contactless. The same fare as Oyster except when using bus routes 402, 477 or Heritage Routemasters which operate some journeys on route 15."

It was the threat of a fine which upset me. After all I had just followed TFL's advice and switched to a more convenient way to pay. I cannot be the only person who has been caught out in this way.

 

[Be3G]

Yes, this is a problem I noted a couple of years ago. I was actually thinking about this the other day, wondering if CPCs were accepted on the 15H yet, so I'm disappointed to find that they're still not.

 

[sheff1]

Do the routemasters carry the red roundel?

They do - there is a picture of one of the buses here.

I can only see a white roundel in that picture. Is the red roundel a sticker in the window or something ?

 

[edwin_m]

Any idea why the contactless technology that works on every other type of bus isn't fitted to a Routemaster? Surely the Oyster-only readers aren't old enough to be classed as heritage?