Misinformed TM

[penaltyfines]

Am currently on the 13:48 PAD-CNM FGW service.... asked the TM about using split tickets in conjunction with 1 season ticket (on Oyster).

His response "they only have Oyster card readers on the Thames Valley route not the High Speed Service trains - so a ticket on an oyster card would be invalid as we can't check if it's valid"..."you'd have to buy another ticket or pay a Penalty Fare".

It's a shame there's still some misinformation out there!

 

[yorkie]

That needs reporting.

If they can't check it's valid, so what? That's their problem.

If anyone tried to PF me I'd refuse to accept the PF. They can then call BTP if they want.

 

[Barn]

Am currently on the 13:48 PAD-CNM FGW service.... asked the TM about using split tickets in conjunction with 1 season ticket (on Oyster).

His response "they only have Oyster card readers on the Thames Valley route not the High Speed Service trains - so a ticket on an oyster card would be invalid as we can't check if it's valid"..."you'd have to buy another ticket or pay a Penalty Fare".

It's a shame there's still some misinformation out there!

Is it a travelcard on the oyster rather than a season ticket? The reason I ask is that I thought the conditions of carriage did not allow splitting with local PTE tickets like travelcards unless the train stops at the boundary station?

 

[transportphoto]

TfL is not a PTE, if it is a travelcard season then it would also be fine, there is not a boundary station for TfL TC zones, if splitting tickets with TC's then the extra ticket should be issued Boundary Zone X to whereever.

It could be possible that the OP has a Point to Point season loaded on his oyster, in which case it is still valid as he is combining a season with a non season (permitted under the NRCoC), even on trains which do not stop at the splitting point.

As yorkie said, it is their fault they can not check the ticket loaded on your oyster, they have to favor your word unless they can prove other wise.

 

[yorkie]

Is it a travelcard on the oyster rather than a season ticket? The reason I ask is that I thought the conditions of carriage did not allow splitting with local PTE tickets like travelcards unless the train stops at the boundary station?

It will be a Travelcard season, not a point-to-point season loaded on the Oyster card. Travelcards are not 'PTE products' and can be combined with any ticket with no requirement for the train to call.

If you only have a Day Travelcard (at present only available on paper, for no known reason, much to the annoyance of myself and many others who visit London for a day and would like the convenience of an Oyster card but not the inconvenience of OSI problems and unresolved journeys and worrying about touching in and out) you can buy tickets from Boundary Zone X, to avoid the need to call at a named station.

Boundary Zone X tickets may also be of benefit to Travelcard Season holders in allowing them to use more than one route (e.g. Boundary Zone 6 to Southend Stns) and also another benefit is they may be cheaper.

Tickets from named stations are perfectly valid on Travelcard Seasons for non-stop journeys though.

The medium (Oyster or paper) is totally irrelevant. What matters is the product.

If you inform FGW I am sure they will provide suitable guidance to the guard. If they do not give you a satisfactory response, contact ATOC & London Travelwatch, who I am sure will provide suitable guidance to FGW.

 

[Barn]

It will be a Travelcard season, not a point-to-point season loaded on the Oyster card. Travelcards are not 'PTE products' and can be combined with any ticket with no requirement for the train to call.

If you only have a Day Travelcard (at present only available on paper, for no known reason, much to the annoyance of myself and many others who visit London for a day and would like the convenience of an Oyster card but not the inconvenience of OSI problems and unresolved journeys and worrying about touching in and out) you can buy tickets from Boundary Zone X, to avoid the need to call at a named station.

Boundary Zone X tickets may also be of benefit to Travelcard Season holders in allowing them to use more than one route (e.g. Boundary Zone 6 to Southend Stns) and also another benefit is they may be cheaper.

Tickets from named stations are perfectly valid on Travelcard Seasons for non-stop journeys though.

The medium (Oyster or paper) is totally irrelevant. What matters is the product.

If you inform FGW I am sure they will provide suitable guidance to the guard. If they do not give you a satisfactory response, contact ATOC & London Travelwatch, who I am sure will provide suitable guidance to FGW.

It's more than this guard then, because Paddington doesn't have oyster readers on the gates (except the local platforms) and the barrier staff have given me similar advice to the OP.

 

[yorkie]

Then write to FGW, and if no satisfactory response is recieved, write to London Travelwatch and ATOC.

Oyster Readers are not required to use a Travelcard on Oyster. Obviously they are required for Pay as you Go (PAYG), which is a completely different product.

 

[Barn]

Then write to FGW, and if no satisfactory response is recieved, write to London Travelwatch and ATOC.

Oyster Readers are not required to use a Travelcard on Oyster. Obviously they are required for Pay as you Go (PAYG), which is a completely different product.

Nope but they're required to avoid an argument with barrier staff twice each day.

 

[91101]

Is there not a Standalone Oyster validator at the 1-6 Gateline for that purpose?

 

[Barn]

Is there not a Standalone Oyster validator at the 1-6 Gateline for that purpose?

Only if you can get to it.

 

[91101]

Which side of the gateline is it? It seems odd for them to have not retrofitted the gates with the Oyster readers, they are Cubic gates afterall.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

Nope but they're required to avoid an argument with barrier staff twice each day.

I assume they do not issue the Oyster Record Card tickets which used to accompany travelcards loaded on Oysters, which they used to issue some years ago when I lived down there for a bit.

 

[fgwoll1e]

Platforms 2-5 Barriers were installed before Oyster was accepted on FGW. Plus Platforms 2-5 are only really long distance trains except sometimes during engineering works, so no real need to have them fitted.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

The confusion might come from the NCoC, specifically conditions 2 (Requirement to hold a ticket), 4 (Penalty Fares), 9 (Electronic tickets) and 22 (Inspection of tickets), all of which conspire to say that if an electronic ticket (for example, as stored on Oyster) cannot be shown, you will be treated as not holding a valid ticket.

That is ofcourse entirely unfair if the guard does not have reader and you have a valid ticket. 'The Manual' lists when penalty fares can be issued for those travelling on Oyster cards.

Also, as the travelcard season ticket is not a PTE product, it can only be used in conjuction with another ticket for a longer journey if together they cover the entire journey and atleast one of the following applies:

They are both zonal tickets; or

The train stops where the tickets change over; or

The Travelcard season is the only season ticket (as defined in NCoC condition 19)

 

[t0ffeeman]

My LOROL train frequently leaves from "mainline" platforms at Euston. There are Oyster readers at the entrance to all the platforms.
At KX there are Oyster readers for platforms 0-8. I can't see why this cannot be done at Paddington

 

[talltim]

I have read so many of these Oyster issue posts. I'm glad I live oop narf

 

[Deerfold]

I have read so many of these Oyster issue posts. I'm glad I live oop narf

Only helps if you stay there...

 

[Greenback]

I'm glad I only visit London occasionally, and use PAYG for relatively simple journeys!

Seriously, there do seem to be a lot of problems!

 

[Deerfold]

I'm glad I only visit London occasionally, and use PAYG for relatively simple journeys!

Seriously, there do seem to be a lot of problems!

I'm glad I don't have to pay on the tube/buses/LO My Oystercard seems to work just fine.

 

[me123]

I'm glad I only visit London occasionally, and use PAYG for relatively simple journeys!

Seriously, there do seem to be a lot of problems!

I'm the same. This Oyster card thing seems to be more trouble than its worth! I like the broad idea, but so many things just seem to go wrong all the time. Hopefully, when it starts rolling out up here, it'll go smoother...

Although, to be fair, the complex arrangement of fares in the London area clearly doesn't help matters. These travelcards, like Oyster, seem to cause more trouble than they're worth!

 

[yorkie]

These travelcards, like Oyster, seem to cause more trouble than they're worth!

I disagree about Travelcards; they're great! Yes Oyster PAYG is a lot of trouble.

They could eliminate a lot of problems by doing some relatively simple things:

1) Allow Day Travelcards to be loaded onto Oyster.
2) When the customer uses OSIs (out of station interchanges) and the system then forms one long journey, if this journey is then too long and would result in an uncompleted journey, it should then revert the effects of the OSI to treat the journeys as individual journeys.
3) When you have reached the all zones daily cap, do not charge an entry fee.

Admittedly option 1) doesn't solve any problems by itself, but it would allow people who do a lot of journeys in a day, e.g. enthusiasts, to have the convenience of Oyster but with the peace of mind of a paper ticket.

 

[penaltyfines]

Am currently on the 13:48 PAD-CNM FGW service.... asked the TM about using split tickets in conjunction with 1 season ticket (on Oyster).

His response "they only have Oyster card readers on the Thames Valley route not the High Speed Service trains - so a ticket on an oyster card would be invalid as we can't check if it's valid"..."you'd have to buy another ticket or pay a Penalty Fare".

It's a shame there's still some misinformation out there!

And again on the 18:59 Swindon-PAD FGW... asked the TM and said Oyster is not valid as they don't have the readers!

 

[yorkie]

http://virgintrains.org.uk/

Do FGW want an equivalent site for them?

Statements of Support

As mentioned in the summary, everyone consulted was of the view that Virgin Trains was in the wrong, with the exception of Virgin Trains.

Some statements of support are listed below (other informal advice has been similar). The complainant is very grateful for this support, and astonished that Virgin Trains took over seven months to accept the rules.

Transport For London Customer Relations, 30 March 2009

I have forwarded your comments to one of our ticketing managers who have advised me that we believe that the Virgin staff were wrong and you should have been allowed to travel.

I note that you have already written to Virgin. I would ask that if Virgin do not acknowledge their error when they reply, you allow us to see their reply so we can take the matter up with them.

Graham Orr, Public Affairs Manager, Transport for London, 7 April 2009, (via Green Greater London Authority Members)

Since your first email, TfL's Fares & Ticketing department has been in contact with Mr <complainant>. We agree with him on this issue and share his view that Virgin staff were, it appears, in the wrong.

As I understand it, Mr <complainant> has written to Virgin and we would be happy to take the matter up with Virgin, on his behalf, if their reply is not satisfactory.

If I can be of any further help, please do get in touch.

Caroline Pidgeon, Deputy Chair of Greater London Assembly Transport Committee

... We were well aware of the point you raise about the excessive cost of extension fares for the holders of paper Travelcard season tickets held by many people in south London. However, your account of the way you were treated by Virgin Trains as the holder of an Oystercard with a Travelcard season ticket stored on it is new - and seems both inappropriate and outrageous.

I will write to Richard Branson at Virgin Trains challenging their policy of refusing holders of such Oystercards and copying in Ian Brown, Head of Rail at Transport for London.

Tony Ewers, Customer Relations Manager, Association of Train Operating Companies

Thank you for your email regarding using a combination of tickets for a journey between London and Milton Keynes on Virgin Trains. I understand that one of the tickets was a Zones 1-2 Travelcard Season on your Oyster Card and the other ticket was an extension ticket from Zone 2 to Milton Keynes.

In noting your comments, all I will say is that we have been in contact with Virgin Trains with our view on this matter and have asked them to revisit their previous reply to you. I trust you will understand that as a trade association we can only provide advice to our members.

Thank you for taking the time to write.

I suggest you contact ATOC and London Travelwatch.

Also, I'd ask the guards which manager(s) is/are giving this incorrect info out, and ensure that the details are passed on for investigation.

 

[Daniel]

I assume they do not issue the Oyster Record Card tickets which used to accompany travelcards loaded on Oysters, which they used to issue some years ago when I lived down there for a bit.

Well I still issue them in the ticket office!! Don't know about elsewhere..

 

[jon0844]

I always get a Record Card when I get my annual TC on Oyster.

 

[penaltyfines]

Well I still issue them in the ticket office!! Don't know about elsewhere..

The plot thickens! Spoke to the gateline supervisor at Paddington - he said as the TMs don't have oyster readers on the HST services out of Paddington, you need to carry the record card for the oyster card - he said it was a condition in their 'guidelines from FGW' of using a boundary zone extension that the record card must be carried.

FYI I buy mine online! And no mention of it in the conditions of carriage!

 

[MikeWh]

I'm sure I read somewhere on here that they had stopped issuing them to all except annual holders who needed something to get the gold card discount at non-oyster stations.

 

[yorkie]

Record cards are only needed for Gold Card discounts, see:

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/system/galleries/download/misc/Oystercou.pdf

So, FGW are making up their own rules? I suggest you report the matter immediately to the relevant bodies, giving them details of who and when you asked and what they said.

 

[fgwoll1e]

These "fgw guidlines" are news to me!

 

[RJ]

If you only have a Day Travelcard (at present only available on paper, for no known reason, much to the annoyance of myself and many others who visit London for a day and would like the convenience of an Oyster card but not the inconvenience of OSI problems and unresolved journeys and worrying about touching in and out) you can buy tickets from Boundary Zone X, to avoid the need to call at a named station.

The reason is that it saves people money, assuming that everything goes seamlessly. Some people might ching out unnecessarily on a Z1-6 TC then only make a couple of journeys which don't cost anything near £14.80/£7.50. The card will cap at the appropriate composite Day Travelcard price if used correctly.

In practice everything does not go seamlessly. I've had several issues with Oyster myself and the amount of people who turn up at my window wanting their problems resolved on a daily basis is quite significant.