I've been sold a YP discounted Travelcard, from Kemsley, instead of the DSB I asked for. I went back to change it but the lady said it didn't matter as it is the same discount, and I'd miss my train. It's too late to do anything about it now as I've already started my journey. Am I going to be ok with it? I'm currently breaking my journey at Chatham.
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Mis-sold ticket: incorrect railcard type
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LexyBoy
Established Member
I'd try and get it changed at a ticket office ASAP (although I'd expect most staff would be understanding - but I'd not want to risk it personally).
222007
Member
As an RPI i would accept this ticket its a genuine error. I've often seen Yp holders with a Senior discount i tend to have a joke with em and say no sorry i need your senior railcard usually makes them laugh. Just goes to show that not all revenue staff are bad hey 
DaveNewcastle
Established Member
Its not at all clear if the passenger has been given authority to travel or not.
At the absolute minimum, I'd advise taking the name of the person who gave the authority as well as the place, time and the employing Company, but there is really no reason why anyone giving that authority to a ticket holder can't take a few moments to mark the ticket.
Whether its "the man on the platform" or "the lady in the ticket office", if they have marked the ticket or provided other authority to travel, then the passenger entitled to continue. Quite how anyone is going to be able to demonstrate that authority if or when challenged is the interesting part, unless they have some evidence of that authority.
At the absolute minimum, I'd advise taking the name of the person who gave the authority as well as the place, time and the employing Company, but there is really no reason why anyone giving that authority to a ticket holder can't take a few moments to mark the ticket.
Well I'd accept it. Does your average customer know that it should say DSB rather than Y-P?
She didn't mark it, and by the time I'd taken her details (which I didn't think to do anyway) she might has well have changed it anyway. I spoke to a different person from who sold me the ticket; after having to queue up again.
I think I might take it to the ticket office at Chatham and see what they say, but I'm not going back there until this afternoon. Will it be a major hassle to get it changed there or will it be a simple process?
I think I might take it to the ticket office at Chatham and see what they say, but I'm not going back there until this afternoon. Will it be a major hassle to get it changed there or will it be a simple process?
I wouldn't worry. Each time this subject crops up, several guards on here say they would accept the ticket. You paid the correct amount of money and it was their mistake, you noticed the mistake and asked for it to be rectified and you were given authority to travel. I'd pop in to the station on your way back to ask them the same question but if they give authority to travel without exchanging it too, then I'd accept that authority.
Not a problem now, but for quite a while TVMs wouldn't sell F&F discounted tickets for journeys wholly within the travelcard zones. You could buy Gold Card tickets, and I had it confirmed by one SE RPI that that was absolutely fine.
466.networkers
Member
Just to add something Kemsley is an unmanned station so the ticket would be from a guard on the train and not from a ticket office - unless the OP bought his ticket from Sittingbourne ticket office.
LexyBoy
Established Member
Well, it's good to see some common sense applied. Personally I'd still be a little wary as it's not technically valid so there's always the possibility of encountering an RPI who does take exception to it - rare though this may be.
I agree with yorkie's points about having "authority to travel" though - especially if the ticket was indeed bought on-board (I had assumed it had been bought at a station).
I did purchase at the Sittingbourne ticket it office; the guard doesn't always come round.
I just went to the ticket office at Chatham and she said it doesn't matter.
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I just showed it the guard on the HS train and gave me a different story. He said the ticket office should have changed it for me, but didn't because "it's too much paper work and they're lazy". He advised me next time to get them to change it, or I risk being fined. What a shambles.
I just went to the ticket office at Chatham and she said it doesn't matter.
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I just showed it the guard on the HS train and gave me a different story. He said the ticket office should have changed it for me, but didn't because "it's too much paper work and they're lazy". He advised me next time to get them to change it, or I risk being fined. What a shambles.
Did he really say you could be fined? If so that's quite appaling. I am confident that could not happen (only a court could issue a fine, and SET would not take it to court, nor would they succeed. If they tried it, we'd make them regret it).
I'd suggest writing to SET asking for clarification as to what to do in future if this happens again. I would be very interested to read their response.
I'd suggest writing to SET asking for clarification as to what to do in future if this happens again. I would be very interested to read their response.
Yes, he used the word "fine". I assumed he meant Penalty Fare, but I didn't want to argue. I'll take your suggestion and get onto SE when I get home; I was mulling it over any
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Yes, he used the word "fine". I assumed he meant Penalty Fare, but I didn't want to argue. He did say it probably wouldnt happen, but it was a possiblity. I'll take your suggestion and get onto SE when I get home; I was mulling it over anyway.
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Yes, he used the word "fine". I assumed he meant Penalty Fare, but I didn't want to argue. He did say it probably wouldnt happen, but it was a possiblity. I'll take your suggestion and get onto SE when I get home; I was mulling it over anyway.
I think that the important thing to stress to them is that the only difference on the ticket is the 3-letter code. The general public are not, AFAIK, expected to understand those codes and if a clerk issues the wrong ticket but at the right price they can't be expected to notice.
Flamingo
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Theoretically yes (or at least the possibility is there if everybody involved took a very strict interpretation of the law), but as has been said, it wouldn't happen.
LexyBoy
Established Member
In the real world, a Penalty Fare is a fine, although it is not a fine in the legal sense. *retreats to a safe distance*
The public isn't expected to know the correct price either, surely? What if the clerk had issued a ticket with a bigger discount than the actual Railcard held entitles the customer to? I can imagine that someone in those circumstances could find themselves in trouble.
The public isn't expected to know the correct price either, surely? What if the clerk had issued a ticket with a bigger discount than the actual Railcard held entitles the customer to? I can imagine that someone in those circumstances could find themselves in trouble.
swt_passenger
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I was sold a FAM discounted ticket by a guard on a SN service before Christmas when I presented a Network Card.
When I asked him if there'd be any problems with it showing the wrong code he replied that he'd been told to just use the Friends and Family code because Network Cards were no longer being issued... :roll:
I suspect (but don't know for sure) that perhaps the NSE option won't appear on the mobile machine by default until 1000 on weekdays?
When I asked him if there'd be any problems with it showing the wrong code he replied that he'd been told to just use the Friends and Family code because Network Cards were no longer being issued... :roll:
I suspect (but don't know for sure) that perhaps the NSE option won't appear on the mobile machine by default until 1000 on weekdays?
Flamingo
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Tell them you have the DSB railcard because you are blind - "What did they sell me then?"
Seriously, you should be fine, the railway has had the correct amount of money out of you and you have a railcard with you, that's all anybody will ask for.
(this is meant as a joke, and is not meant in any way to be disparaging to disabled passengers, before anyone gets on their bandwagon)
The guard on the train made a valid point. The ticket office should have corrected the ticket when you pointed the error out to them. Whether it means paperwork or not is irrelevant.
We all make mistakes from time to time when issuing tickets. Sometimes I'll realise my mistake as the ticket prints, other times the passenger will point it out by saying it normally costs xx amount and I'm sure other times it may go unnoticed until another member of staff picks up on it.
The important bit is to correct the mistake or endorse the ticket accordingly so the passenger does not get inconvenienced at a later point in their journey.
We all make mistakes from time to time when issuing tickets. Sometimes I'll realise my mistake as the ticket prints, other times the passenger will point it out by saying it normally costs xx amount and I'm sure other times it may go unnoticed until another member of staff picks up on it.
The important bit is to correct the mistake or endorse the ticket accordingly so the passenger does not get inconvenienced at a later point in their journey.
You are quite right. When I made a mistake issuing a ticket, and it was pointed out to me, I was quite embarrassed about it and would rectify it straight away.
The passenger should not have the icnonvenience of having to explaibn why they have a wrongly issued ticket. On APTIS it took just a few seconds to non issue the ticket and issue the correct one instead.
As you may or may not know I am a guard. I will relate a similar tale to this. I was at a terminal station chatting to the clerk at the ticket desk when a young chap came in & asked for a YP discounted ticket. The clerk issued a Senior discount instead and when the chap realised that a mistake had occurred he asked if he could exchange it. The clerk to my surprise refused and stated that the fare was the same so what was the problem. A Mexican stand off ensued with the chap politely asking for a change and the clerk just as politely refusing!
To diffuse matters I told the chap I was the guard for the next train & that he would have no problems on my train and instructed him to board (sotto voce I told him I'd endorse his return ticket to state that an issuing error had occurred but that the CORRECT fare had been paid so he'd have no problems there also)
The young chap seemed genuinely worried that his ticket was not valid & personally I would have non-issued & re-issued to save any hassle but at least I hope my actions helped to alleviate the situation
To diffuse matters I told the chap I was the guard for the next train & that he would have no problems on my train and instructed him to board (sotto voce I told him I'd endorse his return ticket to state that an issuing error had occurred but that the CORRECT fare had been paid so he'd have no problems there also)
The young chap seemed genuinely worried that his ticket was not valid & personally I would have non-issued & re-issued to save any hassle but at least I hope my actions helped to alleviate the situation
This is exactly what makes ticket inspection on trains more difficult. Staff who are in a position to correct a wrongly issued ticket SHOULD NOT be encouraging passengers to continue travelling on an 'Invalid ticket'.
Ok this does not happen every day. But I have on occasions come across passengers in a similar position. Now as a guard you ask some basic questions to ascertain what's gone wrong in the ticket issuing process so you can decide how to deal with.
But as soon as you get your first polite question in the passenger goes nuts saying "I told the bloke he'd issued the wrong discount and he said its fine, the price is the same so if you have a problem with my f***ing ticket then take it up with your colleague who sold it to me."
Ofcourse this then means you either walk away or try and stand your ground or attempt to diffuse the situation. However I react, I always end up walking back to the cab in a ****ed off mood because that scene and conflict would not have happened had my colleagues in the ticket office corrected their mistake when it was raised.
Ok this does not happen every day. But I have on occasions come across passengers in a similar position. Now as a guard you ask some basic questions to ascertain what's gone wrong in the ticket issuing process so you can decide how to deal with.
But as soon as you get your first polite question in the passenger goes nuts saying "I told the bloke he'd issued the wrong discount and he said its fine, the price is the same so if you have a problem with my f***ing ticket then take it up with your colleague who sold it to me."
Ofcourse this then means you either walk away or try and stand your ground or attempt to diffuse the situation. However I react, I always end up walking back to the cab in a ****ed off mood because that scene and conflict would not have happened had my colleagues in the ticket office corrected their mistake when it was raised.
Indeed. As a passenger I have been put in this position myself. The matter was resolved when I asked to speak to a manager, but others may accept the ticket office staff's 'authority'.
This is why I get irritated when some guards etc take the view that when someone says 'the man at the station told me' then they are automatically lying. It has happened to me and I have heard others being given totally incorrect advice by 'the man at the station' as well. Of course, if you intervene the old favourite 'don't tell me how to do my job' is trotted out :roll:
Flamingo
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Reissuing a ticket on avantex takes about 20 seconds if cash, a bit more hassle with cards, with a signature for a refund agreed required on the relevant slip. It all gets handed in at the end of the shift, with the relevant numbers recorded on the end of shift sheet. No major hassle, I don't know if the ticket office have a bit more to do.
I have known a case of somebody (gateline, not FGW) who used to sell tickets on the gate to passengers arriving, and non-issue them after the passenger walked off through the gate (handing the ticket to him so he could then endorse it as non-issued). Not very bright, as it showed up like a sore thumb on audit that he was non-issuing all these tickets, and he was looking for a new job shortly after.
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I have had cases where people have said to me "the man on the platform said my ticket was ok" "No he didn't, it was me you asked".
I have known a case of somebody (gateline, not FGW) who used to sell tickets on the gate to passengers arriving, and non-issue them after the passenger walked off through the gate (handing the ticket to him so he could then endorse it as non-issued). Not very bright, as it showed up like a sore thumb on audit that he was non-issuing all these tickets, and he was looking for a new job shortly after.
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I have had cases where people have said to me "the man on the platform said my ticket was ok" "No he didn't, it was me you asked".
DaveNewcastle
Established Member
Still looking?
Flamingo
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Don't know, lost track of him at that stage...
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