Minimum fares increase

[yorkie]

According to Newsrail Express, the Network Railcard minimum fare after 10am (not available before 10am) is increasing from £10 to £13 - an increase of 30% despite inflation being negative.

For 16-25 holders, a lot of fares will go up as the £8 minimum increases to £12 minimum, however the £12 min will apply for all ticket types so tickets that had the £16 minimum applied (such as Anytime returns) between £12 and £16 after discount will cost less than before. Minimum fare applies before 10am except during July/August. This is a slight simplification for 16-25 holders.

ATOC could have genuinely simplified and made all the minimum fares for all railcard types a sensible amount like £10 and apply year round, but they are not in any way committed to real simplification as they don't know what the word means.

 

[glynn80]

For 16-25 holders, a lot of fares will go up as the £8 minimum increases to £12 minimum, however the £12 min will apply for all ticket types so Anytime returns costing between £12 and £16 after discount will cost less than before. Minimum fare applies before 10am except during July/August.

ATOC could have simplified and made all the minimum fares for all railcard types a sensible amount like £10 and apply year round, but they are not in any way committed to real simplification as they don't know what the word means.

This was an idea you championed for a long time though?

You stated on numerous occasions that ATOC should introduce a single minimum fare. You argued that a single minimum fare would be true simplification. Now we have a single minimum fare you now argue that the £12.00 minimum is not simple enough and that the figure should be £10.00 as that is somehow simpler? Is it just because that is a round figure? Is that how you came to that conclusion?

I think what you really wanted was lower fares for Young Persons Railcard holders, not a single minimum fare. £12.00 is the average of £8.00 and £16.00 and seems sensible to me.

You also cannot argue they are profiteering- for the simple reason more Anytime type tickets are likely to be sold before 10am than Off Peak tickets due to the fact the majority of Off Peak tickets have morning time restrictions. Anytime tickets previously had the £16.00 minimum fare and Off Peak tickets the £8.00 minimum fare thus I reckon some TOCs will see a slight reduction in revenue although that would have to be balanced with the increased traffic from the price reduction on those Anytime tickets.

 

[clagmonster]

The one point you have missed is that the minimum fare is removed from advance fares.

 

[yorkie]

Yes, I want a standard minimum fare, for all railcards at all times before 10am. That has not happened.

As it is you can not use a Family or Senior or Forces (I think that's right) in the Network Area before 10am but if you venture just one stop out, suddenly you can! That makes no sense.

Minimum fares can be £10, £12, or £13 even with the simplification of 16-25 minimums. All they've done is taken out one level - a minor improvement as I stated, but a massive missed opportunity.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

You also cannot argue they are profiteering- for the simple reason more Anytime type tickets are likely to be sold before 10am than Off Peak tickets due to the fact the majority of Off Peak tickets have morning time restrictions.

The vast majority are not restricted after 0930 though and many see restrictions lifted earlier than that.

Anytime tickets previously had the £16.00 minimum fare and Off Peak tickets the £8.00 minimum fare thus I reckon some TOCs will see a slight reduction in revenue although that would have to be balanced with the increased traffic from the price reduction on those Anytime tickets.

I think it's unlikely as passengers are surely more likely in general to be regularly buying tickets in the £8-12 bracket. Tickets costing more than £12 are likely to be for longer distances, and when you get to longer distances SVRs become available which only had the £8 minimum.

 

[me123]

As a 16-25 holder, I welcome this improvement. It's fantastic to have a minimum fare that's simple. Of course, some people will suffer but I imagine that many people who were previously ripped off by the recent "simplification" will again be able to purchase tickets at their original prices.

Just a quick example; when I travelled a lot to Leuchars for a small concert series I took part in (6 concerts), I had to pay the £16 minimum because of the trains I needed to take. The extra £4 would have been £24 saved over that period, and I'm sure many travellers will see similar and bigger benefits.

 

[glynn80]

Yes, I want a standard minimum fare, for all railcards at all times before 10am. That has not happened.

You certainly didn't convey that message to me. I never heard another railcard mentioned other than YP.

Minimum fares can be £10, £12, or £13 even with the simplification of 16-25 minimums. All they've done is taken out one level - a minor improvement as I stated, but a massive missed opportunity.

Yes, but how many people carry more than one railcard and thus need to learn the conditions of more than one railcard. You usually need to know the conditions relating to your own railcard, not every railcard on the market.

The vast majority are not restricted after 0930 though and many see restrictions lifted earlier than that.
I think it's unlikely as passengers are surely more likely in general to be regularly buying tickets in the £8-12 bracket. Tickets costing more than £12 are likely to be for longer distances, and when you get to longer distances SVRs become available which only had the £8 minimum.

The point I was making was that they are unlikely to profit from this move which is often claimed for changing ticket conditions. I did not state that all Off Peak tickets which used to fall into the £8.00 minimum bracket would not be revenue for TOCs before 10am.

If an Anytime ticket is valid for 9 hours more than the Off Peak ticket is, it is likely to gather more sales- pretty simple stuff. I can say with near certainty that the majority of TOCs sell more Anytime tickets before 10am than Off Peak tickets for walk on travel.

Also your second analysis point regard £8-12 bracket is not very clear for me, could you expand?

 

[Techniquest]

Wahey, a more sensible policy finally.

And I reckon that at least having the July and August with no restrictions for Y-P holders is a good thing, I would not like that to change!

 

[Mojo]

Given the fact that many SVRs were reclassified 'Anytime' in the new system, I think it will be beneficial for many, given how few 'Off-peak' tickets are valid in the morning peak.

 

[me123]

Quite a few things not mentioned by Yorkie were also published in Newsrail Express:

• 16-25, Family&Friends and Senior railcards will increase to £26pa, but remain at £65 for 3 years.
• 16-25 Railcard holders will get 1/3 off all First Class Advance fares from 17 May 2009.
• 16-25, Family & Friends, Senior, HM Forces and Network Railcard holders will get 1/3 off Outboundary
  Anytime Day Travelcards (Zones 1 - 6).
• A £14.80 minimum fare applies to Outboundary Anytime Day Travelcards (Zones 1 - 6).

So it's not just minimum fares simplifying. In fact, this new travel card thing (which I don't understand too well anyway) is shoving in another minimum fare! That said, there are clear benefits for HM Forces and YP holders.

I'm not happy, however, about yet another increase to £26. We've had a substantial increase last year.

 

[First class]

You are all missing more important info from that express issue:

£8 and £16 minimum fares for 16-25 and HM Forces Railcards will change to a £12 minimum fare for Single
& Return tickets before 10:00am Monday to Friday
• 16-25 and HM Forces minimum fares will not apply to Advance fares.
• £10 minimum fare for Network Railcard will increase to £13 on all tickets Monday to Friday.

However, London Midland have reduced some fares, quite a bit!

From 17 May 2009, changes will be made to Off-Peak Day and Off-Peak Day Travelcard fares on the Bletchley
and Leighton Buzzard to London journeys. This is due to the anomaly with the London Midland Off-Peak Day
return fare from Milton Keynes Central to London
This means that the current Off-Peak Day single/return fares and Travelcards routed “Any Permitted” will be
reduced as follows:
Bletchley – London terminals
Off-Peak Day single (CDS) reduced from £18.70 to £14.40
Off-Peak Day return (CDR) reduced from £18.80 to £14.50
Off-Peak Day Travelcard (ODT) reduced from £24.20 to £19.50
Leighton Buzzard – London terminals
Off-Peak Day single (CDS) reduced from £16.20 to £14.40
Off-Peak Day return (CDR) reduced from £16.30 to £14.50
Off-Peak Day Travelcard (ODT) reduced from £21.70 to £19.50
London Midland only fares now available from Hartford/Winsford/Acton Bridge
From 17 May, passengers travelling from Hartford/Winsford/Acton Bridge will be able to benefit from London
Midland only walk up and Advance fares to all stations between Nuneaton and London Euston inclusive.
Travelcards from West Midland stations to London
Inconsistencies between restrictions on Off-Peak Day return fares and Off-Peak Day Travelcards have been
removed. Off-Peak Day Travelcards and Off-Peak Day singles/returns will now all be available on services
arriving into London Euston at or after 10:00.
Network West Midlands (West Midlands PTE) area
The Northfield – Five Ways Anytime Day return fare has been reduced from £4.50 to £4.40 to remove the anomaly
whereby this fare was more expensive than the fare to Birmingham New St.
London Midland only fares
All London Midland only fares from stations in the West Midlands to stations between Milton Keynes Central and
Harrow and Wealdstone have been reviewed and brought into line so that journeys from the West Midlands to
these stations will be at the same level.