mimimum connection times

[mickey]

The official minimum connection time for Birmingham Moor St is 5 minutes, and for New St 12 minutes. What's the official minimum for transferring (i.e. walking) between the two?

(Note I said 'minimum', not 'recommended', as it could be important for guaranteeing a connection.)

 

[Ivo]

It is supposed to be anything up to 30 minutes for said connection. However, I can tell you that I made it from platform to platform in six last Saturday. Okay, that involved running the Queensway tunnel, but even at a leisurely pace ten is fair. In general though, I personally would advise 20, under normal circumstances.

 

[mickey]

It is supposed to be anything up to 30 minutes for said connection. However, I can tell you that I made it from platform to platform in six last Saturday. Okay, that involved running the Queensway tunnel, but even at a leisurely pace ten is fair. Overall, I would advise allowing 20 personally, under normal circumstances.

I know all that - I've done the same thing lots of times! What I want to know is how many minutes I have to leave before it's officially a guaranteed connection.

 

[bb21]

I'm sure that the NR website used to mention minimum connection times for transfer between nearby stations together with the transfer map, until they redesigned the website completely.

Anyway this is something interesting. I just put in at random on the NR journey planner BHM-BMO leaving at 3am this morning and the first option is a straight walk, of 5 mins duration, at 4.55am. The others all involve walking to Snow Hill then catch a train to Moor Street.

If you add up the transfer time at New Street, 12 mins, the inter-station requirement, 5 mins, and transfer time at Moor Street, 5 mins (as you said), then I would think it should be sufficient time that they cannot deny.

So 22 minutes I say.

 

[bb21]

Forgot to attach these. Oops!

 

[mickey]

So 22 minutes I say.

Typical - I needed it to be 21 or less to be safe! Thank you for your help.

 

[Class377]

To be fair 21 should be fine - I've been to stations where the time has been 10 or so minutes and done it in 5 at the most.

 

[Mojo]

It is possible to walk platform to platform in 10 Min, however if the first train is late you may not be entitled to compensation or alternative transport.

 

[dave4jackie]

I know all that - I've done the same thing lots of times! What I want to know is how many minutes I have to leave before it's officially a guaranteed connection.

no such thing as a guaranteed connection,if train arriving into new st was running say 20 mins late,do you think the train at moor st would wait incase the were any passengers wanting that train answer a big fat NO

 

[Mojo]

no such thing as a guaranteed connection,if train arriving into new st was running say 20 mins late,do you think the train at moor st would wait incase the were any passengers wanting that train answer a big fat NO

No, but the purpose of the question is to determine what is an official connection in order to get compensation for delays or alternative transport.

Interestingly, the National Rail timetable details a lot of official connection times for walks between stations, but Birmingham N St and Birmingham M St are not two of them. I'd simply advise sticking with what the NR website says, if you have it available.

 

[mickey]

No, but the purpose of the question is to determine what is an official connection in order to get compensation for delays or alternative transport.

Exactly. In this case it would merely be a case of opening a TOC-specific ticket to use on another operator's service, but in other circumstances it could mean a taxi home or a hotel for the night. I know trains will rarely be held for late passengers, but TOCs 'have gotta get you home' if it's an officially permitted connection.

Interestingly, the National Rail timetable details a lot of official connection times for walks between stations, but Birmingham N St and Birmingham M St are not two of them. I'd simply advise sticking with what the NR website says, if you have it available.

The trouble is that the NR website says the last connection is a ridiculous hour and a half before the one I want to get. I think it's another unwanted by-product of 'simplification': the system seems to be enforcing connections at Smethwick instead of New St, despite either route being permitted. I know it's highly likely there won't be a problem (as I said, I've done the connection before and know how long it takes in practice), but I'd rather not risk it. In practice I think I'll just change the day I go - not an ideal solution but it solves the problem - it would be hard to argue with bb21's 22-minute logic above.

 

[yorkie]

Ah, you want to obtain an itinerary showing a change of trains at a different location. In that case, try the following methods:
* Try both the Atos Origin and Thetrainline based booking sites
* Try both "arrive before" and "depart after"

A good example to try it on is a journey from Selby to Burnley, or Church Fenton to Todmorden. There are many places you can change on this journey, and the booking engines give different suggestions based on changing the criteria of arrive before or depart after.

Where the route differs, you can use "via" or "avoid" e.g. specify via/avoid Jewellery Quarter.

 

[mickey]

Ah, you want to obtain an itinerary showing a change of trains at a different location. In that case, try the following methods:
* Try both the Atos Origin and Thetrainline based booking sites
* Try both "arrive before" and "depart after"
[...]
Where the route differs, you can use "via" or "avoid" e.g. specify via/avoid Jewellery Quarter.

Thanks yorkie, but I know all this! That was only part of the problem: I was simplifying it to its core element in a vain attempt to get a simple answer.

In short, the issue is whether a 19.40 arrival at BMO can officially connect to a 20.01 departure from BHM, despite any result that may or may not be shown by the journey planner. I was aware that official timings were available for inter-station transfer at some locations, but I couldn't find them for Birmingham. In the end, in the absence of any official guidance, the 22-minute rule above seems to make a lot of sense.

 

[bb21]

Mickey, I found this and think it might be useful.

The random journeys I put in all seem to be suggested with a 22-minute transfer time for the walking component. I can't see how if the minimum connection time is defined as 21 minutes or less they would be timetabled in this way.

The arrival time of the walking component and the departure time of the next leg are not the same.

 

[mickey]

Mickey, I found this and think it might be useful.

The random journeys I put in all seem to be suggested with a 22-minute transfer time for the walking component. I can't see how if the minimum connection time is defined as 21 minutes or less they would be timetabled in this way.

The arrival time of the walking component and the departure time of the next leg are not the same.

Thanks! I hadn't noticed that, but it seems to prove your earlier logical answer (if indeed the two are connected!). I suppose this is as definitive an answer as we're going to get, and I don't see them managing to argue against it if ever it came to it. I still have to change my original plans though!

 

[transportphoto]

I should imagine that they are telling you to get there in time to to board the train - not to see it leave @ XXXX, when you were told to arrive at XXXX. That is prob why they 'time' you to get there at ZZZZ on a XXXX departure.

Replace XXXX to a time & ZZZZ to a slightly earlier time!