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Milton Keynes

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Andyh82

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Milton Keynes as we know it is 51 years old

So why do the buildings in Central Milton Keynes look modern by today's standards, and not horrible dated concrete carbuncles like the 1960s was known for?

The other new towns that I've been to such as Washington, Skelmersdale and Runcorn, do have centres that look more dated and more of a run down concrete breeze block style.
 
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AlterEgo

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Milton Keynes as we know it is 51 years old

So why do the buildings in Central Milton Keynes look modern by today's standards, and not horrible dated concrete carbuncles like the 1960s was known for?

The centre of Milton Keynes was built in the 1970s up until the present day.

It was legally created in the late 1960s, not actually built then. It’s a little younger than a lot of New Towns.
 

Bletchleyite

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Because MK was designed by car fetishests who saw the worst designed housing in Denmark and replicated it there, so any housing zone built without easy car parking and access is ignored in favour of sprawl suburbs and so becomes a "sink estate"?

Are the sprawl estates harder for cv to spread through or is driving to malls and hypermarkets helping it?

Good lord, that's 4 lines of the worst anti-MK prejudice I've seen in my life.

When the lockdown is over, book yourself a hotel and come and explore MK and see what it's really like (not just the centre, all of it). Bletchley Park is well worth a visit too.
 

ashkeba

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Good lord, that's 4 lines of the worst anti-MK prejudice I've seen in my life.

When the lockdown is over, book yourself a hotel and come and explore MK and see what it's really like (not just the centre, all of it). Bletchley Park is well worth a visit too.
Sadly, I have visited MK several times. Bletchley Park is a jewel among poo, predating the city by decades. I have also visited Bletchley centre and stayed near the university, as well as on another trip the city centre which I think is a bit overblown and does not live up to the first impression of the great square when you leave the station but it is far better than several of the residential districts immediately north and south of it. Conniburrow sticks in my memory. I think it really is like a circus mirror view of 1970s Denmark. I am sure it has nicer bits but it hides them well!

Is covid-19 really going to reduce how many people want to leave MK in all directions?
 

Ianno87

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Good lord, that's 4 lines of the worst anti-MK prejudice I've seen in my life.

When the lockdown is over, book yourself a hotel and come and explore MK and see what it's really like (not just the centre, all of it). Bletchley Park is well worth a visit too.

MK does have it's nice parts (even if the parks have an 'artifical' feel to them.

My 12 months of living in MK as a non-car owner was pretty grim. Absolutely everything outside the centre is car driving (rather than walking) distance away...
 

D365

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So why do the buildings in Central Milton Keynes look modern by today's standards, and not horrible dated concrete carbuncles like the 1960s was known for?

The other new towns that I've been to such as Washington, Skelmersdale and Runcorn, do have centres that look more dated and more of a run down concrete breeze block style.

I have to disagree on these points I'm afraid. I spent 10 months doing office work in Milton Keynes. Grey, grey, grey is the only way I can describe the centre.

My 12 months of living in MK as a non-car owner was pretty grim. Absolutely everything outside the centre is car driving (rather than walking) distance away...

Even walking within the city centre (to/from the train station and the adjoining offices where I worked) was a fair old trek on foot.
 

Bletchleyite

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I have to disagree on these points I'm afraid. I spent 10 months doing office work in Milton Keynes. Grey, grey, grey is the only way I can describe the centre.

I would agree - the centre is a 1970s office park with an average out of town shopping centre attached.

It's the rest of it that's nicer (ignoring the centre "ring estates" which are a bit grim). It's beautifully green, and it has as close to a Dutch style cycling network as you'll ever see in the UK - it is not only the "city of the car" (I know it's not a city) but also of the bicycle, though more for transport and leisure than serious cycling. I'd be more lost without my bike than my car. The bus service is garbage, though, you definitely need personal transport of some kind (though private-hire taxis are very cheap and plentiful). An ideal place for an e-bike if you're not fit enough for a conventional one on the hills.

Because of that (and all the other facilities) it'd be a great place to bring kids up. They can be (and often are) allowed to roam in a way that just wouldn't be safe in an equivalently sized "traditional" city.
 

Enthusiast

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Had a week long course near MK once (round about 1985 IIRC). It was in "Horwood House" (which I believe is now a hotel) in Little Horwood. Spent the evenings draining the casks in the nearby "Shoulder of Mutton" boozer (which I believe is now closed). Ventured into MK centre once or twice. Reminded me a bit of Gatwick Airport without the aircraft. Pleasant enough area though. Have they still got the concrete cows?
 

ashkeba

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it has as close to a Dutch style cycling network as you'll ever see in the UK - it is not only the "city of the car" (I know it's not a city) but also of the bicycle, though more for transport and leisure than serious cycling.
Oh please no! No more! My sides are splitting! Maybe it is as close as the UK gets, but it is nowhere near Dutch. More like second level Danish. Whenever there is a choice in MK, the motorist comes first: cyclists have to climb hills while the car glides on the flatter route, cyclists get squashed to tight corners to make room for bigger roundabouts, cyclists have to cross right on the edge of the sweeping motorists exit curve from a junction and rarely have priority. MK is no way a city of the bicycle. Cambridge has a much stronger claim now, despite the mixed standards of building. Norwich, London, Brighton are all ahead of mk, which is maybe tied with Bristol and Manchester since they have been building and mk has been letting its cycleways become bumpy and holed.

While I agree that it is pretty green and the bus service is poor, anyone thinking it is anything like Dutch for cycling needs to take a bike to the edges of Rotterdam, some of which superficially look like MK but the cycleways are so much easier to use that detailed comparisons would fill pages
 

ashkeba

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Had a week long course near MK once (round about 1985 IIRC). It was in "Horwood House" (which I believe is now a hotel) in Little Horwood. Spent the evenings draining the casks in the nearby "Shoulder of Mutton" boozer (which I believe is now closed). Ventured into MK centre once or twice. Reminded me a bit of Gatwick Airport without the aircraft. Pleasant enough area though. Have they still got the concrete cows?
There were some in the shopping centre. I thought I could see them from the train so I think they have been split up.
 

Bedpan

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There were six originally I think, heaven knows how many there are now as I'm sure there are more. There were at one time one or two at the National Hockey Stadium (dreadful place!) back in 2004 or thereabouts.
 

Bletchleyite

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While I agree that it is pretty green and the bus service is poor, anyone thinking it is anything like Dutch for cycling needs to take a bike to the edges of Rotterdam, some of which superficially look like MK but the cycleways are so much easier to use that detailed comparisons would fill pages

Would be interesting to see, but I have lived (sort of, Monday-Friday) in the Netherlands and did own a bicycle, and I found I prefer the MK Redways to the Dutch city setup, because the latter is very "stop start" at traffic lights etc, and while the MK setup has a lot of "down and up" you don't need to stop as much.

You are clearly very anti-MK. Have you lived here?
 

Bletchleyite

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There were six originally I think, heaven knows how many there are now as I'm sure there are more. There were at one time one or two at the National Hockey Stadium (dreadful place!) back in 2004 or thereabouts.

There are I believe two sets, the original and a replica. The ones at Bancroft Park (visible from the railway) are the replicas, the originals are generally in store but are sometimes taken out for display - I believe they were the ones that were at one point at the shopping centre and stadium.
 

Enthusiast

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MK is no way a city of the bicycle.

Well that's something for the good burghers and the lower ranks of MK to give thanks for.

I spent a few nights in Amsterdam once. Once was enough and never again. I have never seen a place so utterly ruined by bicycles. All the scenes you see of picturesque bridges over the city's canals, with couples hand in hand gazing down at the passing boats are figments of the imagination. The pavements across those bridges are completely blocked by bikes chained four or five deep. You cannot get near the parapet to gaze at the water - you have to walk in the road where you are lucky not to be hit by - you've guessed it - bikes. I estimate there about five bicycles for every person in the city. Many owners haven't a hope of retrieving their steed under a five deep pile so I imagine they just go and buy another one. Hence the surplus. They are everywhere. Chained to anything that does not move, blocking every pathway, alleyway, pavement and bridge. Those that are on the move are a menace to everybody - pedestrians, motorists, buses and trams. The place is an absolute nightmare and an experience that I would never repeat even if I was paid to do so. Shame, because it's got some nice sights and architecture, but it's an absolute no-no which I would not recommend to my worst enemy. Leiden, on the other hand, is a different kettle of fish (because there are few bicycles) and the small town of Lisse near Keukenhof Gardens is delightful (because there are virtually no bicycles).
 

PeterY

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I used to visit my father in law in MK. He lived in a nice area near Willen Lakes. He called it "donut city" because all the roundabouts.

My views, his flat was too far from the railway station to walk (45 minutes) but I used to take my bike on the train. Taxis were expensive, buses, what buses. Cycling was the only option, to get around. The red ways are great for riding but they're tired now and need resurfacing. MK was built for the car.
 

Bletchleyite

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I used to visit my father in law in MK. He lived in a nice area near Willen Lakes. He called it "donut city" because all the roundabouts.

My views, his flat was too far from the railway station to walk (45 minutes) but I used to take my bike on the train. Taxis were expensive, buses, what buses. Cycling was the only option, to get around. The red ways are great for riding but they're tired now and need resurfacing. MK was built for the car.

The Redways were in a terrible state around 2005 ish, but there has been and is a major programme of working on them and many have been improved. I don't agree that they're tired now - but they had got into that state. I believe the difficulty was funding - they're technically highways but not something other Councils have as many of.

Taxis (private hire) are now dirt cheap, there is a lot of competition and they are easy to book via an app. Uber is also here but there's no point using it as it's more expensive. The Hackney carriages are to be avoided - expensive and untrustworthy. The buses are rubbish, but not as rubbish as they used to be, at least they're now mostly full sized single-deckers or medium-sized Streetlites and not back-breaking Mercedes breadvans, and if you want to get from the station to by Willen Lake that's easily enough done.

It is, and was, the "city" of the car, and its future probably lies not in traditional public transport (though a tramway would probably wash its face as well as anywhere else along the 4/5/6 bus routes) but self-driving electric vehicles on demand, and I would struggle to think of somewhere in the UK better suited to the electric bicycle or scooter (the latter not technically being allowed but you do see them - I've even seen the very occasional Segway - and as there's no law enforcement at all on the Redway network as such they do get used and don't cause any issues).
 

eMeS

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The Redways were in a terrible state around 2005 ish, ....

And that's around the time I bought a new bike, and tried the Redway system which passes my front garden. Sadly, I found little joy with so many punctures (broken glass littering the underpasses) and it wasn't long before I gave up. Perhaps I'll give it another try, as there does seem less glass now.
With regard to the buses, does anyone know if the #7 electric service was a success? The charging point in Wolverton was there the last time I was in Church Street.
 

C J Snarzell

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Believe it or not - Milton Keynes was used as the setting for Metropolis during filming of Superman 4 in 1986.
 

Bletchleyite

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And that's around the time I bought a new bike, and tried the Redway system which passes my front garden. Sadly, I found little joy with so many punctures (broken glass littering the underpasses) and it wasn't long before I gave up. Perhaps I'll give it another try, as there does seem less glass now.
With regard to the buses, does anyone know if the #7 electric service was a success? The charging point in Wolverton was there the last time I was in Church Street.

The trial has ended and diesel buses are back. I've not seen a report on it, but I'd imagine we will see electric buses back at some point, though probably more like the TfL model with larger battery capacity so no need for the charger units which caused some issues because the layover couldn't be used to claw back lost time.

Regarding punctures, fit your bike with Schwalbe Marathon Plus tyres. They aren't that cheap, but if you do you will not get punctures, glass or no.
 

trainophile

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What sums up Milton Keynes for me is that the Wetherspoons is called... Wetherspoons. Even Tim couldn't think of a more inspiring name. Granted it's a new, bland, building, not an old cinema or bank, but even so it wouldn't have taken too much imagination.
 

Bletchleyite

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What sums up Milton Keynes for me is that the Wetherspoons is called... Wetherspoons. Even Tim couldn't think of a more inspiring name. Granted it's a new, bland, building, not an old cinema or bank, but even so it wouldn't have taken too much imagination.

It's one of the older ones, originally they did just do that, and they don't generally rename them. Locally for that reason it's known as "Old Spoons".

There are a couple of others, the Moon under Water (another standard name) and the wonderfully-named "Captain Ridley's Shooting Party" in Bletchley (Google it to find out why, it's quite interesting, and so far as 'Spoons go quite a nice pub!)

I would agree that CMK is bland, though. The best bits of MK are not CMK. If you want some wonderful traditional pubs try Stony Stratford, for example, or enjoy a walk through one of the linear parks or around Willen Lake (which in summer to me always feels like being on holiday in France). I find that a lot of people slate the whole of MK just because the centre is a bit manky and boring. Taking that approach there are plenty of other places we should slate as well - Croydon would be a classic, the centre isn't overly nice but there are some wonderfully pleasant leafy suburbs there too. Or Leicester - the city centre is a dump, but there are nice bits too.
 

DelW

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The trial has ended and diesel buses are back. I've not seen a report on it, but I'd imagine we will see electric buses back at some point, though probably more like the TfL model with larger battery capacity so no need for the charger units which caused some issues because the layover couldn't be used to claw back lost time.
When the trial ended (early last year?) I looked on the web to see if there were any conclusions published, but all the search results that came up were from the time it started, I couldn't find anything about how successful or not it had been. I believe the buses were effectively on loan from their builders, so were presumably returned.
 

Bletchleyite

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When the trial ended (early last year?) I looked on the web to see if there were any conclusions published, but all the search results that came up were from the time it started, I couldn't find anything about how successful or not it had been. I believe the buses were effectively on loan from their builders, so were presumably returned.

From a passenger's point of view and my observation:
- Much nicer to ride on, quieter, no vibration etc, though there was an irritating high pitched noise (probably not audible by most; my hearing is very good, e.g. I can hear anti-teenager "mosquito" devices despite being 40).
- Punctuality issues due to the layover not being able to be dropped as the bus needed to charge.
- A diesel bus had to be added into the circuit (it was one of the Streetlite demonstrators in silver) to cover for this.

I think I'd expect "successful in the sense that it worked, but the holy grail is a bus that can run all day on battery power, and we'll see limited takeup until there is one".
 

cactustwirly

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It's one of the older ones, originally they did just do that, and they don't generally rename them. Locally for that reason it's known as "Old Spoons".

There are a couple of others, the Moon under Water (another standard name) and the wonderfully-named "Captain Ridley's Shooting Party" in Bletchley (Google it to find out why, it's quite interesting, and so far as 'Spoons go quite a nice pub!)

I would agree that CMK is bland, though. The best bits of MK are not CMK. If you want some wonderful traditional pubs try Stony Stratford, for example, or enjoy a walk through one of the linear parks or around Willen Lake (which in summer to me always feels like being on holiday in France). I find that a lot of people slate the whole of MK just because the centre is a bit manky and boring. Taking that approach there are plenty of other places we should slate as well - Croydon would be a classic, the centre isn't overly nice but there are some wonderfully pleasant leafy suburbs there too. Or Leicester - the city centre is a dump, but there are nice bits too.

I completely disagree, I've lived in Leicester for almost 3 years, the city centre is definitely not a dump, it's actually quite hypocritical if you to say that when you live in MK :lol:
Clearly you don't appreciate an old city centre with medieval and Georgian architecture, and with a multitude of cafés and bars.
I do admit it isn't perfect, it does still have problems, but definitely one of the better cities of the Midlands/North
 

Bletchleyite

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I completely disagree, I've lived in Leicester for almost 3 years, the city centre is definitely not a dump, it's actually quite hypocritical if you to say that when you live in MK :lol:
Clearly you don't appreciate an old city centre with medieval and Georgian architecture, and with a multitude of cafés and bars.

I do - somewhere like Chester is great. Leicester to me just felt really rough and run-down.

Anyway this thread is about MK and I accept CMK is a bit rubbish. But city centres aren't as important as they were, and like Leicester MK has some very nice bits.
 

cactustwirly

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I do - somewhere like Chester is great. Leicester to me just felt really rough and run-down.

Anyway this thread is about MK and I accept CMK is a bit rubbish. But city centres aren't as important as they were, and like Leicester MK has some very nice bits.

It's not perfect I'll give you that, Granby Street and Humberstone Gate aren't the best.
If you're arriving from the station you walk through the worst bit, giving you the false impression it's a dump.

But go to the Western side of the city centre it's anything but! It's a lot better than Nottingham and Derby for sure.
The highcross shopping centre is very nice too
 

Bletchleyite

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It's not perfect I'll give you that, Granby Street and Humberstone Gate aren't the best.
If you're arriving from the station you walk through the worst bit, giving you the false impression it's a dump.

But go to the Western side of the city centre it's anything but! It's a lot better than Nottingham and Derby for sure.
The highcross shopping centre is very nice too

Thanks. Maybe I'll visit again at some point once this is all done with.
 
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