Midland Metro: New Trams

[Badger]

http://www.expressandstar.com/news/2012/02/03/replacement-trams-to-be-built-in-spain/

The replacements for the ageing Midland Metro fleet will be made by Spanish tram manufacturer CAF in a deal worth £40 million. Up to 25 new trams will be provided from late 2014 to run on the 23-stop route between Wolverhampton St George’s and Birmingham Snow Hill.

Up to 25 new trams - that's good news. Was originally going to be 19, to replace the 16 existing trams.

Unfortunately, this is yet another blow to Bombardier, and I'm sure the media will spare no emphasis on that. (Even though they'd have been built in Germany and just finished in the UK).

Existing trams:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Midland_Metro_tram.jpg

Will the existing stations need to be extended to fit the new trams?

 

[starrymarkb]

Up to 25 new trams - that's good news. Was originally going to be 19, to replace the 16 existing trams.

Unfortunately, this is yet another blow to Bombardier, and I'm sure the media will spare no emphasis on that. (Even though they'd have been built in Germany and just finished in the UK).

The only UK part of the Bombardier trams in Manchester and Croydon was the unloading from the low loader (both are derived from models used by Köln). The Nottingham trams were ordered from AdTranz prior to the Bombardier takeover, and were built in Derby.

Edinburgh is using similar CAF trams.

 

[SS4]

Looking good. Presumably to coincide with the extension of the tram down Corporation St. Here's hoping they align the prices with either the bus or the train!

 

[Badger]

I really want them to share ticketing with the railways.

The new trams will coincide with the New Street extension, yes. They're needed for Birmingham street operation, because the old trams don't meet safety regulations (stopping distances, etc). Apparently they're fine for Wolverhampton though...

For some reason I hope they come with the bell that NET use instead of a horn. It really adds character!... am I the only one who likes that?

 

[WatcherZero]

The contract is for 19 five section Urbos 3 trams with the option to purchase 6 more. They had tendered the contract as 'upto 40' but I guess they were thinking of shorter trams that could work in multiple in the end they opted for like for like replacement with trams that were upto 50% longer, the current T69 fleet dont work in multiple unlike their cousins the T68's in Manchester. Saves on the platform, signalling and junction modification costs too I guess if their shorter but with higher ratio of passenger cabin with less space lost from coupled cabs.

 

[Tomonthetrain]

Looking good. Presumably to coincide with the extension of the tram down Corporation St. Here's hoping they align the prices with either the bus or the train!

They have some form of integration with LM - The TVMs at Snow Hill now sell metro tickets, even with Railcard Discounts (when i played with them!)

 

[MetroDriver]

When we were told the news on Thursday just as the press release went out, the general opinion of the preferred bidder's Urbos 3 tram has been very positive. We are aware that contracts have yet to be signed to confirm the order (something which the press seem to have overlooked and given the impression that it's all go). The new fleet is scheduled to be in operation by late 2014 on the existing route we run on first - followed by a scheduled opening of the extension to New Street some time in 2015.
That's the official word from Centro to us at Metro.
We've all been researching these Urbos 3's since finding out the news, and it will certainly be a leap in technology if we get these
Most impressed with their layout for us driving them, as well as passenger comforts of course....
Because CAF use a modular system in construction and offer different section lengths and widths - ours would be an adaptation to suit our existing platform clearances etc.

Of note - this new fleet requirement is partly due to very tight turning clearances on the street route extension - which the current T69's cannot articulate enough for. There is also a gradient issue which we thought was odd considering our viaduct at Winson Green, but with a longer length needed our T69's running gear apparently wouldn't cope with a fully laden tram on the new route?

As for what happens to the existing fleet of T69's - well there doesn't seem much likelihood of anyone willing to purchase them including the engineering back-up etc during this recession, and there is an unofficial whisper that we may just end up keeping them as back-up / football specials etc after some mid-life refurbishment. Actually makes sense to me, as our engineering team have made great strides in reliability since we opened, and they are not ready for the scrapheap yet, so why not keep them as we're all trained up on them!

 

[Tomonthetrain]

@metrodriver Will 01 ever return to service?

 

[MetroDriver]

@ Tom: Doubtful at the moment - same as Tram 02 which is tucked up inside the depot shed... both needing parts which were unavailable. Nothing is concrete of course - it may change once the new fleet comes on line and decisions are made over the existing fleet as mentioned.

Found a good Youtube video by the way which shows something of the technology leap with these Urbos 3 trams - the ability to run entirely on internal power for stretches up to 1500m apparently! Looks rather bizarre to see the driver lowering the pantograph and driving off - the only time we lower the pantograph on the T69's is to reboot the computer system when faults arise

http://youtu.be/unTBRcX0Jjc

 

[dvboy]

I really want them to share ticketing with the railways.

So do I.

You can buy Metro tickets from the ticket machine at Snow Hill, which is a start.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

They have some form of integration with LM - The TVMs at Snow Hill now sell metro tickets, even with Railcard Discounts (when i played with them!)

Yes but you can't use a rail ticket on the tram or vice versa (except in times of disruption when advertised).

 

[SS4]

I'd also take bus pricing. If they can make plusbus valid on the metro it's not that far towards making the nbus valid on the metro too.

I'd take the railway routeing too although I'm not sure how orcats would work since, as a direct "train", it's a valid route.

 

[185]

Bombardier's own goal. Build Manchester's trams in Vienna and people will not see Bombardier as a British product. I'd rather give the job to the Spanish than Austrians.

 

[MetroDriver]

Since we started having our Wayfarer ticket machines and conducters, we have had ticket sharing for the LOCAL rail network within Centro's region?
You can buy combined tickets from the conducters for trains as far as Leamington Spa etc, in the same direction of travel when you board the tram...

As far as I recall, the old TVM's on the stops offered that too, but it's been that long since we got rid of them I can't be 100% and they were so complex even we couldn't understand them at times..lol
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So do I.
Yes but you can't use a rail ticket on the tram or vice versa (except in times of disruption when advertised).

Chiltern offer combined rail / metro ticketing? Not sure about London Midland but can't see why not....

Disruption cross-overs are a different matter anyway and subject to local agreement at the time of any incidents - usually a phone call from operator to operator and passed on to staff right away.

 

[dvboy]

Since we started having our Wayfarer ticket machines and conducters, we have had ticket sharing for the LOCAL rail network within Centro's region?
You can buy combined tickets from the conducters for trains as far as Leamington Spa etc, in the same direction of travel when you board the tram...

As far as I recall, the old TVM's on the stops offered that too, but it's been that long since we got rid of them I can't be 100% and they were so complex even we couldn't understand them at times..lol
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Chiltern offer combined rail / metro ticketing? Not sure about London Midland but can't see why not....

Disruption cross-overs are a different matter anyway and subject to local agreement at the time of any incidents - usually a phone call from operator to operator and passed on to staff right away.

Wasn't aware there were Metro-Chiltern combined tickets. The examples you give don't need combination tickets anyway. You can sell Daytrippers/nNetwork One Days for destinations within the West Midlands. Leamington can be done on a Daytripper Plus anyway, can you sell those on Metro? Plusbus is valid on Metro too, perhaps that's what Chiltern sell for onwards travel from Snow Hill.

The limitation is if you buy a Snow Hill - Hawthorns single rail ticket you can't use that on the tram, or vice versa.

 

[WatcherZero]

@ Tom: Doubtful at the moment - same as Tram 02 which is tucked up inside the depot shed... both needing parts which were unavailable. Nothing is concrete of course - it may change once the new fleet comes on line and decisions are made over the existing fleet as mentioned.

Found a good Youtube video by the way which shows something of the technology leap with these Urbos 3 trams - the ability to run entirely on internal power for stretches up to 1500m apparently! Looks rather bizarre to see the driver lowering the pantograph and driving off - the only time we lower the pantograph on the T69's is to reboot the computer system when faults arise

http://youtu.be/unTBRcX0Jjc

Thats if they choose to purchase the supercapacitors, the Flexity 2 in Blackpool have the same possibility but they chose not to purchase that feature. At the moment at least the batteries only last about four years and are quite expensive to replace.

 

[MetroDriver]

Chiltern won an award for offering combined travel on us:

• Working in partnership with the Midland Metro to provide free Metro travel for day return travellers between the West Midlands and London.

As for ticket options combining Metro use within the specific Network West Midlands operating area:

http://tickets.networkwestmidlands.co.uk/CT_TicketSearch.aspx

As far as I'm aware - the DaytripperPlus doesn't apply to Metro sold ticket options - not showing on the link above. Our Wayfarers have single Tram/Rail tickets programmed in as well as the Network Daytripper - but we don't actually have much demand for the singles. When we get the new machines (Smart reader) I've no doubt the ticketing structure will be overhauled as it's a minefield to understand even for us...lol

It would be nice to think the new fleet get equipped with the Smart Readers as per existing operators of the Urbos 3, but we'll have our CSR's with the new hand-held ones by then anyway so not sure.

 

[dvboy]

So say I got on at St Georges you could sell me a through ticket to Shirley, changing at Snow Hill?

 

[MetroDriver]

That is correct.... mind you you might get a confused CSR as we haven't issued any for a long time as demand isn't there..... It's on the Wayfarer though!

I only conduct now and then (dual trained but I've been driving for 12 years) but I've never even been asked about Rail Transfers until mentioned on here!

 

[dvboy]

Well they can't be well advertised (if at all).

Wonder how much that costs in comparison with seperate tram/train tickets or a Daytripper?

 

[MetroDriver]

In all honesty personally I don't think it was ever intended to advertise it that well - it was a Centro thing at the time of launch that we had integrated tickets of that nature - these days the n-tickets get more publicity as befitting the "Network West Midlands" integration.

When, (eventually) we get the new Smart machines etc, things will probably change again - we're the last to get anything as per usual

 

[Peter Jones]

Hi Metro Driver,

What is the status of tram 12?

When I went past the depot around 2 weeks ago it appeared to be dumped at the end of a siding at the south end of the depot and did not look as though it had been used for some time?

Thanks,

Peter Jones

 

[MetroDriver]

Hi Peter,
Tram 12 is out and about and servicable as far as I'm aware...

Chances are you saw it stabled at the bottom of the sidings which is where we keep 'spares' ready for swapping over / running the 'extra peak time services'.

If you had seen it on the siding nearest the mainline, that's what we refer to as the headshunt and is where the trams go before being towed into our wheel lathe 'tent' for routine tyre turning.

As for 'looking out of use' - I have a feeling that could be down to the overall condition of some of the fleet with tired paintwork etc?

 

[Peter Jones]

Metro Driver,

Thanks for the info. It was down near what looked like the entrance gate.

Regards,

Peter Jones

 

[Tomonthetrain]

Tram 12 was on the 1530 ex West Brom ----> Birmingham on Thursday

 

[atsf_fT]

im a little Disappointed tram 12 has not been repainted and named " Queens Golden Jubilee - 50 years " or somethink like it. tram 12 is the only tram running not to be named ? it is an Opportunity missed dont you think ?? it seems also tram 02 will not be comeing back in service even though it has had a new floor and new L.E.D lights fitted it was due to in service this summer , it is now dummped further over on the tracks near to were the old line was to dudley . anyone have any photos of tram 01 - 02 they are the only ones i do not have any photos of. :cry:
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

im a little Disappointed tram 12 has not been repainted and named " Queens Diamond Jubilee - 60 years " or somethink like it. tram 12 is the only tram running not to be named ? it is an Opportunity missed dont you think ?? it seems also tram 02 will not be comeing back in service even though it has had a new floor and new L.E.D lights fitted it was due to in service this summer , it is now dummped further over on the tracks near to were the old line was to dudley . anyone have any photos of tram 01 - 02 they are the only ones i do not have any photos of. :cry:

i meant " Queens Diamond Jubilee - 60 years " :roll:

 

[MetroDriver]

You may be dissappointed but realistically where would the money come from to repaint an entire tram? There simply is no budget for such work at all... The few trams that went 'pink' were all trams that had major structural repairs so needed repaints anyway (and were all covered under insurance), and the remaining fleet stayed in the original colours due to the lack of funding mentioned already. With the new CAF Urbos 3 fleet due to start arriving late next year, you won't see any changes to the existing fleet now....

Tram's 01 and 02 have been moved from their original stabling next to the depot maintenance building as construction work is well underway for the depot extension.

The extended sidings area has been cleared, a temporary site office complex has gone up (two-storey portakabin 'village'), and contractors have been busy preparing the whole site with groundworks going on throughout the site...

There have also been some minor engineering works going on at night over the whole existing route for a while now - all part of the preparations!

The local media covered the start of the 'on-street' prep work the other day - existing underground services starting to be moved on Bull Street / Corporation Street areas...

Linked with this - the ongoing redevelopment of New Street Station has gathered pace, with some of the work tied in with the tram extension of course.....

 

[atsf_fT]

thanks metrodriver on whats going on , what will happen to the old trams once the new ones arrive - has that been talked about yet ? one kept has just a static display some were would be good , maybe turned into a cafe

no chance of a cheap "Vinyl Transfer name " on tram 12 done by the depot staff goin happen then ? even painted on will do . maams in brum on the 12th .

 

[MetroDriver]

Regarding the current stock of Ansaldo T69's - nothing confirmed about their future yet I'm afraid...

Although I understand your idea about Tram 12, as I mentioned before there simply isn't a budget for this sort of thing? Only Centro would come up with that sort of funding if they were promoting anything, and as operational staff, we wold be the last to know...lol

 

[MetroDriver]

Bit of an update on things....

Depot construction work is well underway and rather obvious to passing commuters now. Our sidings area has turned into a vast area of dirt as groundworks develop that area to accomodate the new tram fleet and extra sidings / buildings etc.
Soon to be ripped up are the original engineer's tracks leading south out of the maintenance shed, plus the staff car park is going.... (to be relocated).

The existing T69 fleet is undergoing something of a makeover at present, with even more use of LED lighting units now across the fleet. Not only the old indicator / tail light units, but now the 'cyclops' lights are all LED. Tram 09 is currently trialing an LED destination blind both ends, which if successful will be installed on all the operable fleet...

Trams 01 and 02 are now located in a stripped out condition down on the original sidings and very much 'out-of-use'.

Work continues up in Birmingham, with some minor structural work alongside Snow Hill where the new trackbed will be, and of course Bull Street and Corporation Street are now having underground services relocated in readiness....

 

[dvboy]

Why are they refurbishing existing trams if new trams are on the way?