Micheal Portilo Rides a Pacer!

[PacerTrain142]

So a new Series of Great British Railway Journeys has started recently and he's been doing a lot of travelling over Northern England and that only means one thing - at one point he's going to inevitably have to travel on... The Pacer!

Throughout this week and the last he's been travelling a lot around the north east and now north west. Sure, he's travelled on them in previous series as well, but tonight he's traveled on more Pacers than I've ever seen him travel on before, nearly every train was a Pacer!

When he was on the train he often sat in the middle, some of the trains had bus seats and some had the refurbished 2+2 seating. There was a little squealing at points but no bouncing (excessive bouncing is much less of a problem now on 142's as they've made improvements to the track). Seemed quite content and reasonably happy enough while travelling on them.

I of course love them and would much rather travel on one than say a Class 700 for example but with him being quite refined and an ex-politician etc I thought he might find them a bit bare-bones, primitive and noisy.

Last week he met the infamous "Rhyming Conductor" on a 142 (i've only ever seen him operate 142's actually, maybe thier his favourite train?? ). It started in December 2014 when he started turning his announcements into poetry as a festive thing and he then decided to do it all year round. It's a bit of a shame though that some of the mics on the 142's are a bit crap and make it difficult to hear what the conductor is saying.

Videos of him here: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=rhyming+conductor+northern+rail

Anyway, I wonder what Micheal Portilo thinks of these buses, um.. i mean, trains???

 

[J-2739]

There was a little squealing at points but no bouncing (excessive bouncing is much less of a problem now on 142's as they've made improvements to the track).

Okay...



I'd really like to meet this 'Rhyming Conductor'. Seems like the perfect way to brighten up an otherwise awful Pacer journey!

 

[Darandio]

(i've only ever seen him operate 142's actually, maybe thier his favourite train?? )

Not sure he has a choice, he works Saltburn>Darlington>Bishop Auckland 99% of the time.

A thoroughly nice chap he is too.

 

[Firesprite]

Anyway, I wonder what Micheal Portilo thinks of these buses, um.. i mean, trains???

Was he not the Transport Secretary when the 142's were ordered?

 

[cjmillsnun]

Was he not the Transport Secretary when the 142's were ordered?

No, he became Transport Secretary the year after the last one was built.

 

[yorksrob]

Was he not the Transport Secretary when the 142's were ordered?

Portillo was a bit of a young gun when the pacers were ordered. He came on the ministerial scene towards the later part of Mrs T's reign as far as I recall.

 

[aylesbury]

If someone else paid my tickets I would ride in an open wagon even a Pacer!

 

[AndrewE]

At least it will show the southern viewers just how many journey in the north (actually in the provinces as they are not just northern beasts) are made in Pacers. That's if those viewers are clued-up enough to spot it.

 

[PacerTrain142]

At least it will show the southern viewers just how many journey in the north (actually in the provinces as they are not just northern beasts) are made in Pacers. That's if those viewers are clued-up enough to spot it.

At least up North we don't have the problem of strikes, excessive cancellations and delays, excessive overcrowding, atrocious fares etc. I've heard Northern's punctuality record is quite good whereas all i've heard is complaints about rail services down South. Don't get me wrong the North has those problems as well but not as bad as down South..

Down South they may have faster newer more modern trains and more frequent services but is it really worth it if you have to be squished like sardines and pay an arm and a leg just to get to work every day?

 

[Bletchleyite]

excessive overcrowding

You've used Northern and TPE services around Manchester, right? And the worst thing is that to solve the overcrowding in the North all is needed is more rolling stock - down South it's more complicated as lines are full to capacity and platforms at maximum length.

 

[Hadders]

Like the 40 year old class 313s? Yes there are newer trains but these will have to last 40+ years. Not everything in the south is brand new

 

[Tracked]

At least up North we don't have the problem of strikes

Currently being balloted for, over pay
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=139854

 

[Ron Hale]

excessive overcrowding,

Try getting on a train from Sheffield or Leeds to Manchester!!!

 

[CaptainHaddock]

So a new Series of Great British Railway Journeys has started recently and he's been doing a lot of travelling over Northern England and that only means one thing - at one point he's going to inevitably have to travel on... The Pacer!

Throughout this week and the last he's been travelling a lot around the north east and now north west. Sure, he's travelled on them in previous series as well, but tonight he's traveled on more Pacers than I've ever seen him travel on before, nearly every train was a Pacer!

When he was on the train he often sat in the middle, some of the trains had bus seats and some had the refurbished 2+2 seating. There was a little squealing at points but no bouncing (excessive bouncing is much less of a problem now on 142's as they've made improvements to the track). Seemed quite content and reasonably happy enough while travelling on them.

I of course love them and would much rather travel on one than say a Class 700 for example but with him being quite refined and an ex-politician etc I thought he might find them a bit bare-bones, primitive and noisy.

Last week he met the infamous "Rhyming Conductor" on a 142 (i've only ever seen him operate 142's actually, maybe thier his favourite train?? ). It started in December 2014 when he started turning his announcements into poetry as a festive thing and he then decided to do it all year round. It's a bit of a shame though that some of the mics on the 142's are a bit crap and make it difficult to hear what the conductor is saying.

Videos of him here: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=rhyming+conductor+northern+rail

Anyway, I wonder what Micheal Portilo thinks of these buses, um.. i mean, trains???

He was on a 142 on yesterday's edition travelling from Chapeltown to Sheffield so you are correct.

Michael Portillo's lucky; when he boards a pacer, by the time he gets off it's turned into a 158! The rest of us Yorkshire commuters aren't so fortunate.....

 

[northwichcat]

At least up North we don't have the problem of strikes, excessive cancellations and delays, excessive overcrowding, atrocious fares etc. I've heard Northern's punctuality record is quite good whereas all i've heard is complaints about rail services down South. Don't get me wrong the North has those problems as well but not as bad as down South.

Strikes - While strikes have been rare since FNW/ATN days Northern staff are currently being balloted on strike action as you may have seen in another thread. It's also risky to say strike action is worse down south when the strikes are over driver operated/controlled services and Northern are supposed to running 50% of services as DCO by the end of 2019 and Merseyrail 100% DOO soon after.

Excessive delays and cancellations - My local Northern route certainly has had that when it took them over 30 hours to move a 150 which set on fire. That caused a lot of delays and cancellations on a line with a mainly hourly service. Imagine how many delays and cancellations it would have caused if there had been a train every few minutes, which is more common service frequency down south than up north. The lower frequency also creates bigger problems when a train is cancelled as you can arrive an hour late (or even 2 hours late if the next service is so crowded that not everyone can get on) opposed to 15 or 30 minutes late.

Excessive overcrowding - Up to 300 passengers on a train designed to seat around 110 passengers isn't excessively overcrowded? Or do you mean your local Northern route is one of the quieter ones?

Atrocious fares - In a recent thread someone complained about New Southgate to Moorgate (15 miles) going up to £8.70 for an Anytime Return with no off-peak return option (even though there's the option of cheap contact-less off-peak single fares with it being in a TfL area.) On my local Northern route you can pay £10.70 for the same length of journey at peak times and £8.90 at off-peak times.

 

[Trackman]

I was on a 150 with him, he joined at Oxford road and left at Piccadilly for a Railway servicemen service or something. Has this been on TV yet?

 

[AndrewE]

Like the 40 year old class 313s? Yes there are newer trains but these will have to last 40+ years. Not everything in the south is brand new

I bet most People on Pacers would happily be on a class 507 or 508 (or on a pre-war 502 or 503) instead. It would mean they were enjoying the benefits of electrification, bogied stock, minimum 3-car trains etc etc.

If only!

 

[northwichcat]

I bet most People on Pacers would happily be on a class 507 or 508 (or on a pre-war 502 or 503) instead. It would mean they were enjoying the benefits of electrification, bogied stock, minimum 3-car trains etc etc.

If only!

The Merseyrail 507s and 508s aren't state of the art but apart from the difference between the properly refurbished Merseyrail trains and refreshed Northern 142s, they are quieter, quicker to accelerate, warm in winter (no draughty bus doors) and provide a much better ride quality. The only downside is the lack of a toilet.

 

[AM9]

... Excessive overcrowding - Up to 300 passengers on a train designed to seat around 110 passengers isn't excessively overcrowded? Or do you mean your local Northern route is one of the quieter ones?

Well a brand new 12-car class 700 seats 666 and is expected to take a total of 1750 passengers in total, that's about the same ratio as a pacer does.

Atrocious fares - In a recent thread someone complained about New Southgate to Moorgate (15 miles) going up to £8.70 for an Anytime Return with no off-peak return option (even though there's the option of cheap contact-less off-peak single fares with it being in a TfL area.) On my local Northern route you can pay £10.70 for the same length of journey at peak times and £8.90 at off-peak times.

Not really a fair comparison, both stations are in the TfL zones so effectively 'PTE' fares. Go just outside the zones, say St Albans to St Pancras (20 miles). An Anytime return will cost £20.00!

 

[Bletchleyite]

The Merseyrail 507s and 508s aren't state of the art but apart from the difference between the properly refurbished Merseyrail trains and refreshed Northern 142s, they are quieter, quicker to accelerate, warm in winter (no draughty bus doors) and provide a much better ride quality. The only downside is the lack of a toilet.

I remember how homely a 50x (even with the original interior) used to feel when transferring from a rattly Pacer at Ormskirk.

 

[northwichcat]

Well a brand new 12-car class 700 seats 666 and is expected to take a total of 1750 passengers in total, that's about the same ratio as a pacer does.

DfT define the capacity of a 142 (standing and seated) as 137 passengers. The fact most have 3+2 seating and no grab handles means it isn't safe for them to be carrying more than a handful of standing passengers. You say the 12 car 700s are designed to carry 1084 standing passengers so they are a very different type of train.

Not really a fair comparison, both stations are in the TfL zones so effectively 'PTE' fares. Go just outside the zones, say St Albans to St Pancras (20 miles). An Anytime return will cost £20.00!

But then there's carnet ticket prices and a special low price weekend ticket so that fare can't be compared with fares in other parts of the country.

 

[Realfish]

I was on a 150 with him, he joined at Oxford road and left at Piccadilly for a Railway servicemen service or something. Has this been on TV yet?

Yes. It was on, on Tuesday as part of his latest journey. It's on the BBC iPlayer.

 

[Trackman]

Yes. It was on, on Tuesday as part of his latest journey. It's on the BBC iPlayer.

Thanks, just watched a bit of it. I was behind the camera in most shots.
It was interesting to see how it was done, there are only 2 people with him (sound and cameraman) and he seems to direct the shots himself.
Going to download the series to my sky box when I'm home.

 

[johntea]

I liked how they showed an exterior shot showing the train destination as Leeds yet Michael alighting on Platform 1! (Sheffield bound I believe)

 

[Deepgreen]

Is 'Micheal Portilo' different from Michael Portillo?

 

[QueensCurve]

When he was on the train he often sat in the middle, some of the trains had bus seats and some had the refurbished 2+2 seating. There was a little squealing at points but no bouncing (excessive bouncing is much less of a problem now on 142's as they've made improvements to the track). Seemed quite content and reasonably happy enough while travelling on them.

They haven't improved the track between Carlisle and Currock Junction. This is a 10mph speed limit and the pitching is nauseating to say the least.

The 1960 SA lists this as a 15mph speed limit. Perhaps it will drop to 5mph before anyone replaces the track. :cry:

 

[AM9]

But then there's carnet ticket prices and a special low price weekend ticket so that fare can't be compared with fares in other parts of the country.

You compared the anytime £10.70 and off-peak £8.90 fares, not a special weekend fare or any bulk purchase offer.
The equivalent here (for 33% further distance) is £20 anytime and £12.30 off-peak. So, much dearer down south in the peak and a little more off-peak.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

DfT define the capacity of a 142 (standing and seated) as 137 passengers. The fact most have 3+2 seating and no grab handles means it isn't safe for them to be carrying more than a handful of standing passengers. You say the 12 car 700s are designed to carry 1084 standing passengers so they are a very different type of train.

Similar to the 319s which would often carry way in excess of their rated capacity. When a four-car unit would turn up in place of an 8-car it was as packed as anything that I've seen outside the south-east.

Anyway this is getting away from Michael Portillo's Pacer jaunts. I saw some of those. He looked reasonably comfortable in them, - he was spoilt by the good all-round view. I noticed that when I was on them.
It's inevitable that a train near the end of it's service life comes off poorly when compared with the latest stock being issued elsewhere. I suspect that the 700s (and the 331s) will be regularly moaned about in 2040, and complaints about somewhere else getting privileged travel courtesy of whatever replaces their Desiros or Electrostars. It's just human nature.

 

[DelW]

It was interesting to see how it was done, there are only 2 people with him (sound and cameraman) and he seems to direct the shots himself.

That's something I'd wondered about as well. He's no doubt been doing the programmes long enough now that he knows how to do it as least as well as a professional director would. He's also much more relaxed, both talking to camera and to the people he interacts with, than in the early series.

I enjoy each series, despite the much discussed continuity glitches in the editing.

 

[AndrewE]

It's inevitable that a train near the end of it's service life comes off poorly when compared with the latest stock being issued elsewhere. I suspect that the 700s (and the 331s) will be regularly moaned about in 2040, and complaints about somewhere else getting privileged travel courtesy of whatever replaces their Desiros or Electrostars. It's just human nature.

Not necessarily. I was saying that I (and I suspect lots of others) would see anything as better than a 142, for example any EMU, even if of similar or even much greater age! Hence the memory of a pre-war LMS unit on the Wirral. I commuted on the 304s for a while without thinking I was being short-changed. Does anyone remember whether the Bury electric EMUs were still OK towards the end - It was after all just Mk I class 507 stock so maybe just neglected in the run-down to closure?

 

[northwichcat]

You compared the anytime £10.70 and off-peak £8.90 fares, not a special weekend fare or any bulk purchase offer.
The equivalent here (for 33% further distance) is £20 anytime and £12.30 off-peak. So, much dearer down south in the peak and a little more off-peak.

In the other thread I was making a fair comparison when someone complained about an 'expensive' £8.70 Anytime Day Return in London with no Off-Peak Day Return option. You've chosen a flow which isn't the same distance and has cheaper off-peak tickets at weekends than on weekdays - how are we supposed to compare that to a flow which has one off-peak price 7 days a week?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

When a four-car unit would turn up in place of an 8-car

It doesn't even need a short formed or cancelled service for a Pacer to get as full as I was describing.

Anyway this is getting away from Michael Portillo's Pacer jaunts. I saw some of those. He looked reasonably comfortable in them, - he was spoilt by the good all-round view. I noticed that when I was on them.

You do realise Portillio tries to film on the quieter trains e.g. he's known to start filming at 6am on Saturdays. I bet anyone travelling on the 15:17 Manchester to Chester right now doesn't have Portillo's good view but instead has the view of a load of school kids filling up the aisles due to no seats.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Is 'Micheal Portilo' different from Michael Portillo?

It's his stunt double.