Mg11

[Travis100]

Hi,

I travelled from central London last week during evening rush hour and tapped in on my weekly zone 1 and 2 and went to a station just beyond zone 3 where my intention was to tap out as I had credit on my oyster card. W

 

[yorkie]

Hi,

I travelled from central London last week during evening rush hour and tapped in on my weekly zone 1 and 2 and went to a station just beyond zone 3 where my intention was to tap out as I had credit on my oyster card. When I got to the station there were revenue protection officers, I was unable to find my oyster at first but then realised I had put it in my bag and got it out by that time there were three of them and no other passengers leaving the station. I said that I needed to tap out, they put the blue machine over my card and it came up as green.

So you were valid, and that should be the end of the matter (providing you tapped out)...

So there's obviously more to this, as we're about to find out...

However they then gave me the Spanish inquisition about where I lived and where I had travelled from and why I was coming to this station. I was taken aback as the way they were talking to me made me feel threatened and under deep suspicion.
I had recently attended a funeral for the sudden death of a relative and my father is in hospital so not feeling at my best. I felt like I had done something wrong and lied about where I lived but this probably made them more suspicious and they looked at my oyster history and said I had travelled from a station in zone 3 and not tapped in on other days. I admit I had bought a weekly zone 1 and 2 some time back initially with the intention to walk to a further away station every morning to not have to pay more for zone 1 to 3 but had got lazy and had used the station in zone 3 which doesn't have barriers.
They basically took all my details and said that I would hear from their company with a court date. They were thuggish bully types who obviously get a kick out of their jobs.
My question is that even though I had a valid ticket and money on my oyster to top out legally how can they give me a MG11 when I had intention to tap out and would have been travelling perfectly legally. Have they got the powers to look at my oyster history and then conduct an MG11? After the MG 11 was finished I wasn't thinking clearly and forgot to tap out which isn't great I guess.

I would be much appreciative if someone can advise if they are within their powers to check my oyster history and issue me with an MG11 for that? Any idea what fine I could expect and if they will scrutinise my oyster card (which they noted down) to see if I had failed to tap in or out in the past?

Any advice on this would be greatly greatly appreciated

It sounds to me like they have been tracking you for some time and were waiting for you. Obviously this can be done by looking at incomplete journeys on Oyster.

From what you have written it sounds like you have admitted to them that you have committed offences on previous occasions, and you still didn't tap out on this occasion, as well as providing a false address, so it should be a straightforward case, so it may be better to plead guilty, to lessen the fine.

No I don't know what the fine would be, it depends on the evidence they have gathered, and yes they are able to check your Oyster history for suspicious activity.

 

[tony6499]

I don't think the emotional comments about 'thuggish bully boys' adds anything, just stick to the facts

 

[Travis100]

Thanks Yorkie, I think due to the fact there are no barriers at the stations the temptation is there but obviously no excuse. I think they were doing an exercise to catch people who only buy 1 and 2 zones, I could easily have waited on the platform and gone back to London but there wouldn't have been an issue. In your opinion do you think they will look at my last 8 weeks oyster history then when deciding on a fine? Do you know what letter I would expect to get next would it be a court summons or something detailing my income? Appreciate your advice.

 

[RJ]

I would be much appreciative if someone can advise if they are within their powers to check my oyster history and issue me with an MG11 for that? Any idea what fine I could expect and if they will scrutinise my oyster card (which they noted down) to see if I had failed to tap in or out in the past?

Any advice on this would be greatly greatly appreciated

Data requests can be made for Oyster history for the purpose of crime detection.

 

[maniacmartin]

Where did you stop to look for the Oyster card in your bag? Was this before or after the Oyster reader post and/or red line on the ground that indicates the boundary of the compulsory ticket area?

 

[Travis100]

I was on the platform of the rail station

 

[34D]

So had you passed the final oyster validator?

 

[Travis100]

no the revenue protection people were blocking access

 

[redbutton]

TfL has been known to use CCTV and Oyster travel histories to catch people who regularly fare evade at non-barriered stations. I believe they even showed an example of this on "The Tube" documentary on the BBC last year.

But how would a prosecution work assuming one was travelling legitimately on this occasion yet admitted to past fare evasion? If the OP's statement when questioned basically amounts to "Yeah I may have done that once or twice", wouldn't they then have to find and prove a specific incident, or is that admission enough to secure a conviction?

(Of course, the OP should seek his/her own legal advice, I merely pose the above as a hypothetical scenario)

 

[maniacmartin]

If you had sufficient credit on the card and were intercepted before you had a chance to touch out on a reader then I am struggling to see how an attempt to evade the fare could proceed. If that were the case, you may wish to consider requesting a copy of any CCTV before it gets recorded over.

 

[Haywain]

If you had sufficient credit on the card and were intercepted before you had a chance to touch out on a reader then I am struggling to see how an attempt to evade the fare could proceed. If that were the case, you may wish to consider requesting a copy of any CCTV before it gets recorded over.

But the OP appears to have admitted to the offence, and didn't touch out on this occasion. CCTV will back that up, and potentially back up the existence of previous occasions. It might be realistic to claim that the fare wasn't evaded if the OP had subsequently touched out, but being pulled up for it and still not touching out is really not clever, and would be compounded by asking for proof!

 

[maniacmartin]

Oops. I missed that detail. I still think it wasn't the wisest place to intercept by the RPIs though.

 

[Travis100]

They intercepted

 

[Haywain]

Oops. I missed that detail. I still think it wasn't the wisest place to intercept by the RPIs though.

Maybe not, but I don't think giving a false address was the wisest thing the OP did either. Reading the details again, the OP also made the job easy for the RPIs by not having the Oyster ready, which looks as if there wasn't an intention to use it.

 

[Travis100]

ok then

 

[reb0118]

I didn't give a false address to them

I just lied about where I lived

Mutually exclusive?

Discuss.

 

[Haywain]

I didn't give a false address to them I just lied about where I lived when they asked me a hundred questions like I was a common criminal not a hardworking taxpayer.

A hardworking taxpayer who didn't pay the fare due... I'm sorry, but I am struggling to be sympathetic here. Still, in the interests of giving advice, I have to say that honesty is the best policy and the impression I get is that you are in denial about how serious this is.

This:

I had bought a weekly zone 1 and 2 some time back initially with the intention to walk to a further away station every morning to not have to pay more for zone 1 to 3 but had got lazy and had used the station in zone 3 which doesn't have barriers.

says that this was not a one off. In which case, they may well have been tracking you, and this will become very serious.

 

[jon0844]

No disrespect, but if you've done it before, you are a criminal but just haven't been prosecuted yet.

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

 

[transmanche]

Mutually exclusive?

Discuss.

It's quite possible that they asked the OP in what place he/she lived (rather than an exact address) to see if the pattern of journeys 'fitted' or not.

 

[bb21]

There is a lot of irrelevant waffle going on but I will get to the central issue.

yorkie is correct that it may well have been a targeted operation, which means that you have been tracked for a while. If so, they will probably have CCTV footage of your movements for the last few weeks/months, which could very easily be used to establish in a court of law that you are indeed a criminal, as you have admitted yourself, even though you keep lying to yourself that not paying the correct fare does not make you one.

Now that you have admitted to them what you have been doing for a while, what happened that day really pales into insignificance.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

. . . . . I will get to the central issue.

. . . .

Now that you have admitted to them what you have been doing for a while, what happened that day really pales into insignificance.

I completely agree with this assessment. I have seen how such targetted operations appear to the subjects, and this fits that model very well. I expect that there is a strong file of evidence being prepared to support a prosecution.
I apologise if my hunch is incorrect, but Travis100, the OP, will know whether or not there is a sustained history of evasion, and if so, should be preparing for a defence by mitigation.

 

[hassaanhc]

I could easily have waited on the platform and gone back to London but there wouldn't have been an issue.

That would still be fare evasion as you wouldn't have paid for two Z3 journeys! There could easily have been someone checking just as you boarded the train at Z3 and have seen no touches from where you boarded.