MG11 southeastern rail

[har]

Hello,

I took a train from St John’s station to Charing Cross today however on the Trainline app I only purchased a ticket from London Bridge
The ticket in question was 25p cheaper than the one I should’ve purchased, to make clear I’m not trying save a huge amount but I was just careless and didn’t think it mattered (I purchased my ticket after using Trainline to find the London Bridge to Charing Cross train time)

I was stopped by an officer at the gates as he was manually scanning tickets and asked why I didn’t scan my ticket in at London Bridge and I told a lie about using contactless from St John’s which was very clearly false and then proceeded to tell the truth, I just jumped on the train and was thoughtless

This isn’t my usual journey but I do take this route few times a month, sometimes purchasing from St John’s sometimes not as I have realised once looking at my previous tickets

I regularly get on at lewisham which has gates so always get my ticket


After receiving the witness statement he said I can expect a letter and off camera advised me that I should ask to settle outside of court depending on the contents of the letter

2 questions to ask:

1. How long should I expect the letter to arrive?

2. What is the best way to respond (providing they request my view of events) in order to pay a fine rather than a court summons?


Thanks in advance

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Aug 2024 ==

Hello,

I took a train from St John’s station to Charing Cross today however on the Trainline app I only purchased a ticket from London Bridge
The ticket in question was 25p cheaper than the one I should’ve purchased, to make clear I’m not trying save a huge amount but I was just careless and didn’t think it mattered (I purchased my ticket after using Trainline to find the London Bridge to Charing Cross train time)

I was stopped by an officer at the gates as he was manually scanning tickets and asked why I didn’t scan my ticket in at London Bridge and I told a lie about using contactless from St John’s which was very clearly false and then proceeded to tell the truth, I just jumped on the train and was thoughtless

This isn’t my usual journey but I do take this route few times a month, sometimes purchasing from St John’s sometimes not as I have realised once looking at my previous tickets

I regularly get on at lewisham which has gates so always get my ticket


After receiving the witness statement he said I can expect a letter and off camera advised me that I should ask to settle outside of court depending on the contents of the letter

2 questions to ask:

1. How long should I expect the letter to arrive?

2. What is the best way to respond (providing they request my view of events) in order to pay a fine rather than a court summons?


Thanks in advance

I would like to add, I have checked and seemed to have made this choice estimated 10 times whilst going through my purchase history in the last year

Which would equate to £2.50

Which really makes me look stupid for when I receive a £200+ fine or a summons to court

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

Somepne purchasing a traditional ticket between London Bridge and Charing Cross is going to look suspicious simply because the vast majority of people would use contactless for that journey.

What happens next is that Southeastern will write to you in the next few weeks, the exact timescale depends on their workload but I'd say it normally takes around a month.
The letter will say that they have received a report, are considering prosecuting you and asking for your version of events before deciding how to proceed. You might want to include the following in a short, concise reply:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

Southeastern are usually prepared to offer an administrative settlement (commonly known as an out of court settlement) for people who engage with the process and who haven't come to their attention before. We cannot guarantee this and they within their rights to prosecute you in the magistrates court if they want to.

If you are offered a settlement expect to have to pay the cost of the fare avaded at the full Anytime rate with no credit given for the invalid ticket you did purchase. In addition you will need to pay an admin fee, typically around £150. An out of court settlement might appear to be a fine, but it isn't and you won't have a criminal record as a result of accepting one.

Feel free to post a copy of the letter once it arrives (with personal details redacted) along with your draft reply in this thread and forum members will be happy to proof read it for you.

 

[island]

So you’re saying that instead of touching in and out between St Johns and London costing £3.70 peak or £3.10 off peak, you bought an e-ticket from London Bridge to London Charing Cross costing £3.90?

 

[Haywain]

Which really makes me look stupid for when I receive a £200+ fine or a summons to court

As alluded to by @island above, what makes you look stupid is paying over the odds, whether it be from St John's or Lewisham that you travelled. If that's what you were really doing, of course. But paying more than necessary won't stop Southeastern (most likely) taking action against you as the intention was very clear, and not having a ticket for your whole journey is an offence.

 

[har]

So you’re saying that instead of touching in and out between St Johns and London costing £3.70 peak or £3.10 off peak, you bought an e-ticket from London Bridge to London Charing Cross costing £3.90?

Yes I bought an ey icket
But with a railcard connected to my account making the ticket paid 2.55 from London Bridge when I should have paid 2.80 from St John’s

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 31 Aug 2024 ==

As alluded to by @island above, what makes you look stupid is paying over the odds, whether it be from St John's or Lewisham that you travelled. If that's what you were really doing, of course. But paying more than necessary won't stop Southeastern (most likely) taking action against you as the intention was very clear, and not having a ticket for your whole journey is an offence.

I use a railcard on Trainline
Making the tickets cheaper to purchase than to tap in and out causing my card (i beleive)
Just St John’s to London Bridge costs me £2.80

Regardless I’m not questioning the best way for me to pay for my journeys in this instance
But enquiry into the best response for when I receive a letter
And I guess the likelihood of receiving an out of court settlement although I understand that is hard to say

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 31 Aug 2024 ==

Feel free to post a copy of the letter once it arrives (with personal details redacted) along with your draft reply in this thread and forum members will be happy to proof read it for you.

Thank you, I will hopefully soon

 

[island]

You should get an Oyster card and get the Railcard attached to it, which will make it cheaper still at off-peak.

 

[har]

You should get an Oyster card and get the Railcard attached to it, which will make it cheaper still at off-peak.

Thank you, I was meant to do this a year ago but I never got round to it

 

[SEuser1607]

Hello,

I took a train from St John’s station to Charing Cross today however on the Trainline app I only purchased a ticket from London Bridge
The ticket in question was 25p cheaper than the one I should’ve purchased, to make clear I’m not trying save a huge amount but I was just careless and didn’t think it mattered (I purchased my ticket after using Trainline to find the London Bridge to Charing Cross train time)

I was stopped by an officer at the gates as he was manually scanning tickets and asked why I didn’t scan my ticket in at London Bridge and I told a lie about using contactless from St John’s which was very clearly false and then proceeded to tell the truth, I just jumped on the train and was thoughtless

This isn’t my usual journey but I do take this route few times a month, sometimes purchasing from St John’s sometimes not as I have realised once looking at my previous tickets

I regularly get on at lewisham which has gates so always get my ticket


After receiving the witness statement he said I can expect a letter and off camera advised me that I should ask to settle outside of court depending on the contents of the letter

2 questions to ask:

1. How long should I expect the letter to arrive?

2. What is the best way to respond (providing they request my view of events) in order to pay a fine rather than a court summons?


Thanks in advance

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Aug 2024 ==


I would like to add, I have checked and seemed to have made this choice estimated 10 times whilst going through my purchase history in the last year

Which would equate to £2.50

Which really makes me look stupid for when I receive a £200+ fine or a summons to court

I was stopped at London Bridge at the end of April by Southeastern, received a letter at the beginning of June asking for more details and my response as per above by Hadders to which I wrote a letter and sent back via email. This then took several weeks unfortunately and only today I received my out of court settlement letter and fine to pay.
So unfortunately a long process to resolve but hopefully gives you some idea as to how this will potentially work for you.

 

[30907]

I was stopped at London Bridge at the end of April by Southeastern, received a letter at the beginning of June asking for more details and my response as per above by Hadders to which I wrote a letter and sent back via email. This then took several weeks unfortunately and only today I received my out of court settlement letter and fine to pay.
So unfortunately a long process to resolve but hopefully gives you some idea as to how this will potentially work for you.

Thanks for the info and welcome to the forum.
Another piece of info would help update the advice we often give: was your settlement in line with what you expected, ie the full fares for your travel plus an admin fee of up to £150?

 

[har]

Hello all, update,
Have just received a court summons regarding the case,

I have not been given the chance to apologise and try for an out of court settlement,
Does anyone know if there is anything else I can do to avoid a court hearing and settle outside of court?
The court hearing is very soon so I am unsure if there is a way to settle outside

Any advise would be useful

Thank you in advance

 

[island]

Unfortunately we are seeing this quite a bit from Southeastern at the moment – they are prosecuting a lot of cases where in the past an out of court settlement might have been offered.

You should call them in the morning and follow up with a letter, asking to settle out-of-court.

 

[har]

Unfortunately we are seeing this quite a bit from Southeastern at the moment – they are prosecuting a lot of cases where in the past an out of court settlement might have been offered.

You should call them in the morning and follow up with a letter, asking to settle out-of-court.

Thank you for your idea, I will read through the document they have sent me and try call in the morning
I’m hoping they have left contact details if not I will search online so I can contact the correct person

 

[some bloke]

Southeastern have charged you with the wrong offence.

They did the same in two other recent cases:

He isn't guilty of that offence. He didn't travel beyond a distance for which a ticket of his was valid - he didn't have a ticket to start with.

Southeastern seems to have accused him of the wrong crime.

However, they could ask the court to substitute an allegation of another offence.

You're innocent of that charge. Southeastern seem to have made the same mistake as here:

As they can apply to substitute another charge, you are still in the position of needing to ask for a settlement.

You might want to obscure your surname on the last paragraph of the Statement of Facts and replace the image.

 

[har]

Southeastern have charged you with the wrong offence.

They did the same in two other recent cases:



As they can apply to substitute another charge, you are still in the position of needing to ask for a settlement.

You might want to obscure your surname on the last paragraph of the Statement of Facts and replace the image.

Thank you have adjusted now


So I guess kind of, the journey I took was St John’s to Charing Cross (change at London Bridge) however the ticket I purchased was from London Bridge to Charing Cross.
I didn’t proceed further than my ticket destination but instead started my journey before the starting destination

But yes they can always ask to change this
I will call in the morning but again any advise I’m all ears

 

[Hadders]

Can you upload all of the paperwork they have sent you. We've sometimes seen examples where they send an out of court settlement as well as a court summons, effectively giving you a choice. I'm not saying they've done this in your case but it would be good to know.

 

[har]

Just these documents - also the witness statement from the officer and details regarding the court date

No opportunity regarding out of court settlement

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Nov 2024 ==

As I have not been asked to settle outside of court

I wrote up a request which I was hoping to post first class and email to the prosecutions office

I’ve attached a photo of what I have written so far,

Please let me know if I should change any thing within it wording wise or maybe it should be shorter


Thank you in advance

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Nov 2024 ==

This is the email and letter first class I plan to send as they have not asked for an out of court settlement

Please any advise would be appreciated

Thank you



To whom it may concern,
I have been issues with a summons to court after being checked at the gates of Charing Cross train station on the 30thof August, although I have not been presented with the opportunity to apologies, I still wanted to contact the Southeastern prosecutions office in hopes that I can still request an out of court settlement.
I would like to apologize not only for not purchasing a ticket for the first two stops of my journey from St Johns station to London Charing Cross but also taking up time of the officer who had to question me.
I failed to purchase the full length of my journey from St Johns station to London Charing Cross and instead only purchased a ticket from London Bridge to Charing Cross and was stopped by an officer at my destination.
After the time spent both getting questioned by the officer at Charing Cross and then anticipating this letter, this is not a mistake I am wanting to make again. When looking into this type of incident myself I understand how much these offences cost your business and the seriousness of prosecution, I apologize profusely for my part in this cost. I can guaranteeyou that I will be sure to plan my journeys in advance and have the correct ticket purchased prior to entering St Johns station, and any future journeys I may take.
I would be grateful if you allowed me to pay the remaining fare of my journey and of course any administrative costs you have incurred in dealing with this matter. It is my desire to avoid any legal action and the possible consequences of such. It’s my request that you may please offer an Out of Court Settlement to close the matter?
I would like to reiterate my apologies, and I take full accountability for my mistake.
Thank you for your assistance and I await your decision.
Sincerely

 

[30907]

Some suggested cuts to avoid repetition. Fell free to accept or not

To whom it may concern, Or "Dear Sir or Madam" ? I.have been issues with a summons Reference no. to court after being checked at the gates of Charing Cross train station on the 30thof August, although I have not been presented with the opportunity to apologies, I still wanted to I am contacting the Southeastern prosecutions office in hopes that you might be willing to offer can still request an out of court settlement.

I would like to apologize not only for not purchasing a ticket for the first two stops of my journey from St Johns station to London Charing Cross but also taking up time of the officer who had to question me.
I failed to purchase the full length of my journey from St Johns station to London Charing Cross and instead only purchased a ticket from London Bridge to Charing Cross and was stopped by an officer at my destination.
After the time spent both getting questioned by the officer at Charing Cross and then anticipating this letter, this is not a mistake I am wanting to make again. When looking into this type of incident myself I understand how much these offences cost your business and the seriousness of prosecution, I apologize profusely for my part in this cost. I can guarantee you that I will be sure to plan my journeys in advance and have the correct ticket purchased prior to entering St Johns station, the station any future journeys I may take.
I would be grateful if you allowed me to pay the remaining fare of my journey and of course any administrative costs you hav1e incurred in dealing with this matter. It is my desire to avoid any legal action and the possible consequences of such. It’s my request that you may please offer an Out of Court Settlement to close the matter?
I would like to reiterate my apologies, and I take full accountability for my mistake.
Thank you for your assistance and I await your decision.
Sincerely

 

[har]

Some suggested cuts to avoid repetition. Fell free to accept or not

Thank you, I agree with your changes

Have updated and emailed my letter,
Do you recommend to send by post also?

Thank you

 

[Titfield]

Thank you, I agree with your changes

Have updated and emailed my letter,
Do you recommend to send by post also?

Thank you

Given that South Eastern have been losing correspondence of late (as evidenced in other threads) I would also send it by "signed for" delivery at the Post Office. Better safe than sorry,

 

[har]

UPDATE:
I have been lucky and they have allowed for an out of court settlement

£150 administrative fees + £4.30

Thank you everyone for you help
I emailed at 7pm last night and they responded at 10:30 this morning

 

[island]

UPDATE:
I have been lucky and they have allowed for an out of court settlement

£150 administrative fees + £4.30

Thank you everyone for you help
I emailed at 7pm last night and they responded at 10:30 this morning

Thank you for coming back and glad to hear you've got a settlement.

Make sure you pay it and keep a record of any receipt or reference number.

Going forward it is essential you pay the correct fare. As I mentioned above, using an Oyster card with your Railcard discount attached will for most use cases be the best way forward.

 

[har]

Thank you for coming back and glad to hear you've got a settlement.

Make sure you pay it and keep a record of any receipt or reference number.

Going forward it is essential you pay the correct fare. As I mentioned above, using an Oyster card with your Railcard discount attached will for most use cases be the best way forward.

Yes thank you for your advise and help