Metrolink: Where should it go next?

[Jorge Da Silva]

Beyond 2021 when the Trafford Park Line opens where should Metrolink expand to:

Possible Expansion Options:

• East Didsbury-Stockport
• Middleton
• Western Loop (linking with the proposed Manchester Airport HS2 station?)

Where else do you think it should go or could go?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Wigan Wallgate via Atherton? Hadfield/Glossop? Rose Hill Marple?

 

[daodao]

Wigan Wallgate via Atherton? Hadfield/Glossop? Rose Hill Marple?

Conversion of the ex-GC line from Ashbury's to Rose Hill, Marple would be an obvious next step, with a new surface tram line to connect the existing line from just east of Ashbury's to the east end of the current tram portal under Piccadilly.

Trains to Marple Bridge and beyond could be routed via Guide Bridge, with track sharing (tram-train style) between Romiley station and Marple Wharf junction, or alternatively dedicated single lines as occurs through Navigation Road.

 

[Chester1]

Beyond 2021 when the Trafford Park Line opens where should Metrolink expand to:

Possible Expansion Options:

• East Didsbury-Stockport
• Middleton
• Western Loop (linking with the proposed Manchester Airport HS2 station?)

Where else do you think it should go or could go?

The Trafford Park Line is still due to open early 2020 not 2021.

It is more important for Stockport to have a line to the Airport than East Didsbury, although the likely route to the Airport would diverge from the original proposed route between Stockport and East Didsbury (before the plans were reduced) near Gorsey Bank and therefore cover about half of the route. It would make sense to do both at the same time. I am not sure the business case for East Didsbury-Stockport would be sufficient to justify it as a stand alone scheme.

The Combined Authority has applied for financing to extend the Airport Line to Terminal 2 but the rest of the loop won't progress until nearer to 2033. They have also authorised writing a business case for a Crumpsall to Middleton branch, which would presumably be an extension of the Trafford Park-Crumpsall service. I think they want to wait to see how the South Wales Tram-Train scheme goes before trying it in Manchester.

 

[Along the bay]

The Trafford Park Line is still due to open early 2020 not 2021.

It is more important for Stockport to have a line to the Airport than East Didsbury, although the likely route to the Airport would diverge from the original proposed route between Stockport and East Didsbury (before the plans were reduced) near Gorsey Bank and therefore cover about half of the route. It would make sense to do both at the same time. I am not sure the business case for East Didsbury-Stockport would be sufficient to justify it as a stand alone scheme.

The Combined Authority has applied for financing to extend the Airport Line to Terminal 2 but the rest of the loop won't progress until nearer to 2033. They have also authorised writing a business case for a Crumpsall to Middleton branch, which would presumably be an extension of the Trafford Park-Crumpsall service. I think they want to wait to see how the South Wales Tram-Train scheme goes before trying it in Manchester.

Wouldn't they look at the Sheffield - Rotherham tram train instead
The Welsh ones are trains that can act as trams .

 

[Bletchleyite]

Wouldn't they look at the Sheffield - Rotherham tram train instead
The Welsh ones are trains that can act as trams .

They are pretty much the same thing in concept - a vehicle that meets both train and tram regulations. The Welsh ones are high floor and the Rotherham ones low floor, but that's neither here nor there; Metrolink vehicles are trams and are high floor, while Stadler FLIRTs are trains but can be low floor.

 

[MarkyT]

They are pretty much the same thing in concept - a vehicle that meets both train and tram regulations. The Welsh ones are high floor and the Rotherham ones low floor, but that's neither here nor there; Metrolink vehicles are trams and are high floor, while Stadler FLIRTs are trains but can be low floor.

I'm sure approvals for Citylinks in South Wales will draw heavily on work already done in Sheffield, even though there will be minor detail differences in design. After South Wales, Stadler will have an off the shelf solution ready for any further customers wanting either high or low platforms.

 

[Bevan Price]

Radcliffe & Bury to Bolton ?

 

[yorksrob]

Please God, not Wigan via Atherton. I want a quick journey to Vic

 

[Bletchleyite]

Please God, not Wigan via Atherton. I want a quick journey to Vic

An EMU (tram) would provide a quicker journey than whatever Northern manage to scrape from the bottom of the DMU barrel due to the fast acceleration.

 

[yorksrob]

An EMU (tram) would provide a quicker journey than whatever Northern manage to scrape from the bottom of the DMU barrel due to the fast acceleration.

No they wouldn't because I'd have to go through the magical mystery tour of the streets of Manchester to get to Victoria.

I want my normal halfhour service to the centre of Manchester, which is better facilitated by the National rail network.

 

[Ianno87]

No they wouldn't because I'd have to go through the magical mystery tour of the streets of Manchester to get to Victoria.

I want my normal halfhour service to the centre of Manchester, which is better facilitated by the National rail network.

Metrolink would be the only practical way of ever getting better than half-hourly service on the route.

Would be an opportunity to add a few extra stops for poorly served areas, like Dobbs Brow, Little Hulton and Pendlebury.

 

[Chester1]

Marple and Glossop are more likely than Atherton because they only require a link from near Ashburys or Ardwick to Piccadilly Metrolink stop. Atherton tram trains would require a line from Salford Crescent into central Manchester. There are 5tph each from Altrincham and Bury that start and terminate at Piccadilly. 60m tram trains extended to Marple would help serve growing demand on both lines and Bury-Altrincham could be opperated by tram trains if the Navigation Road bottleneck was returned to dual heavy rail tracks.

Wouldn't they look at the Sheffield - Rotherham tram train instead
The Welsh ones are trains that can act as trams .

I agree Rotherham scheme is more similar but it is very late and massively over budget. I think the Combined Authority / TfGM will want to see a successful scheme before trying it themselves. The extension of the Airport line to terminal 2 is a good little scheme to do after the Trafford Park Line opens and it gives more time to develop the next long term strategy.

 

[LOL The Irony]

No they wouldn't because I'd have to go through the magical mystery tour of the streets of Manchester to get to Victoria.

Point proven by Altrincham - Piccadilly. The tram is a shorter, more direct route than the train yet takes about the same time.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Point proven by Altrincham - Piccadilly. The tram is a shorter, more direct route than the train yet takes about the same time.

Most people don't want to go *to* Picc, or much less Vic. They want to go to Manchester City Centre, which the tram makes a far better job of.

 

[Bungle965]

Most people don't want to go *to* Picc, or much less Vic. They want to go to Manchester City Centre, which the tram makes a far better job of.

Try telling that to some MP, I seem to have a recollection of one on the Rochdale line being up in arms over the fact that their service did not go to Piccadilly.

 

[gordonthemoron]

Northwich, instead of the proposed Northern stopper

 

[tbtc]

Most people don't want to go *to* Picc, or much less Vic. They want to go to Manchester City Centre, which the tram makes a far better job of.

Precisely!

Something that's easily forgotten is that everyday passengers aren't making the kind of journeys that enthusiasts do - more people from Atherton/ Glossop/ Marple want to head to the offices/ shops/ bars of Manchester than visit a mainline train station as their destination.

If you can provide people with more frequent services that actually run into the heart of the city (and do so with an operation that requires no operational subsidy, unlike Northern Rail) then surely that's a good thing?

Look at the Oldham line - when the four trains per hour were replaced by five trams per hour (initially), passenger numbers rose significantly - because the number of people wanting to get closer to places like the Arndale vastly outnumbered those wanting through tickets to National Rail destinations. Not perfect - through-ticketing to/from Metrolink isn't as good as it should be - but the evidence seems to show that passengers prefer five trains per hour (into the heart of Manchester) than four trains per hour (to Victoria).

Plus, given well documented capacity problems at central Manchester stations, converting the Atherton/ Glossop/ Marple lines to Metrolink (or "TramTrain') would free up some much needed capacity!

 

[yorksrob]

Metrolink would be the only practical way of ever getting better than half-hourly service on the route.

Would be an opportunity to add a few extra stops for poorly served areas, like Dobbs Brow, Little Hulton and Pendlebury.

Half hourly is a perfectly acceptable frequency for the route IMO.

I just don't want to spend stupid amounts of time on a crappy tram with no bog pootling around the streets of Manchester. I want a swift connection to get back to Yorkshire.

This is what people forget. Trains are part of a national network to get people significant distances in a reasonable time. If you want slow and frequent, catch a bus.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Northwich, instead of the proposed Northern stopper

TfGM would get to Ashley and go "Hang on a minute, this isn't Greater Manchester!" and scrap the project again.

 

[Busaholic]

Precisely!

Not perfect - through-ticketing to/from Metrolink isn't as good as it should be - but the evidence seems to show that passengers prefer five trains per hour (into the heart of Manchester) than four trains per hour (to Victoria).

I always value and enjoy your contributions, and try not to be a nitpicker, but think you mean five trams per hour, to make sense?

 

[yorksrob]

Point proven by Altrincham - Piccadilly. The tram is a shorter, more direct route than the train yet takes about the same time.

Indeed.

 

[yorksrob]

If you can provide people with more frequent services that actually run into the heart of the city (and do so with an operation that requires no operational subsidy, unlike Northern Rail) then surely that's a good thing?

Is there any evidence that the Oldham loop itself required an operating subsidy as part of the railway network, or are we just assuming that it did because the artificially created Northern Rail franchise did at the time ?

The Oldham loop may have been cross-subsidising other parts of the franchise.

 

[edwin_m]

I always value and enjoy your contributions, and try not to be a nitpicker, but think you mean five trams per hour, to make sense?

Pretty sure Oldham has ten trams per hour - at least the journey planner indicates so although the map implies five!

 

[Bungle965]

Pretty sure Oldham has ten trams per hour - at least the journey planner indicates so although the map implies five!

Oldham has both the Shaw and Crompton and the Rochdale services so ten trams per hour sounds right.
Sam

 

[Chester1]

Pretty sure Oldham has ten trams per hour - at least the journey planner indicates so although the map implies five!

It has 10tph, 5tph start and finish at Shaw because the demand between Shaw and Rochdale is insufficient for 10tph.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Half hourly is a perfectly acceptable frequency for the route IMO.

I just don't want to spend stupid amounts of time on a crappy tram with no bog pootling around the streets of Manchester. I want a swift connection to get back to Yorkshire.

Most people don't, though, which is evidenced by the phenomenal popularity of Metrolink despite its high fares.

 

[yorksrob]

Most people don't, though, which is evidenced by the phenomenal popularity of Metrolink despite its high fares.

Well, the railway can't be everything to all people. The trains on the Atherton line don't run empty in my experience. It's popular enough that the units are doubled up a lot of the time.

If there is that much demand for a metrolink style service to the North West of Manchester, they should dig up the guided busway and replace it with a tram. They can then leave the railway to those of us who need a railway service.

 

[Flying Claret]

Beyond 2021 when the Trafford Park Line opens where should Metrolink expand to:

Possible Expansion Options:

• East Didsbury-Stockport
• Middleton
• Western Loop (linking with the proposed Manchester Airport HS2 station?)

Where else do you think it should go or could go?

Extend through the ELR to an 'east lancs parkway' at Rawtenstall...

 

[Ianno87]

Extend through the ELR to an 'east lancs parkway' at Rawtenstall...

Have to admit, I do sometimes think it's a shame the ELR is there - the density of population in the valley wouldn't be badly suited to Metrolink....