Metroline 84 under threat ?

[Goldfish62]

I don't know. Maybe not every 12 minutes, but they're extending the 434 further out into Surrey

The bulk of the 434 runs in London whereas the bulk of the 84 runs outside London.

 

[Surreytraveller]

The bulk of the 434 runs in London whereas the bulk of the 84 runs outside London.

Yes, but the extension of the 434 is outside London

 

[Goldfish62]

Yes, but the extension of the 434 is outside London

The original point was about whether TfL would replace the 84 in normal circumstances, which it wouldn't. The 434 is already a TfL route. The 84 isn't.

 

[Surreytraveller]

The original point was about whether TfL would replace the 84 in normal circumstances, which it wouldn't. The 434 is already a TfL route. The 84 isn't.

The point was why would TfL fund a service outside London

 

[Goldfish62]

The point was why would TfL fund a service outside London

Thank you for agreeing with me.

 

[TheManWho]

The point was why would TfL fund a service outside London

because it's outside London and resources are limited

 

[Surreytraveller]

Thank you for agreeing with me.

My point is, TfL are willing to fund an extension which is wholly outside their area during these financially tight times. Doesn't add up

 

[Goldfish62]

My point is, TfL are willing to fund an extension which is wholly outside their area during these financially tight times. Doesn't add up

I agree that I don't know why they're doing that.

 

[A0]

My point is, TfL are willing to fund an extension which is wholly outside their area during these financially tight times. Doesn't add up

Because it is a logical terminus for the route and may attract additional revenue? That would be the "normal" reason for doing so. I can't imagine TFL extending a route which didn't meet that.

 

[Surreytraveller]

Because it is a logical terminus for the route and may attract additional revenue? That would be the "normal" reason for doing so. I can't imagine TFL extending a route which didn't meet that.

Maybe. But the extension will run along the same roads as the 443 which will replace the 407. TfL have been reducing routes which run along the same roads, using the excuse of the hopper fare. Just seems odd to me

 

[Dstock7080]

84 to be operated by Sullivan Buses from 2 April 2022 on existing frequency.
Slight alteration to routing:
St Albans - Potters Bar Station then an anti clockwise loop via Mutton Lane, High Street, Hatfield Road, Church Lane & Darkes Lane.

will not be replacing the section from Barnet to Potters Bar.

 

[RELL6L]

84 to be operated by Sullivan Buses from 2 April 2022 on existing frequency

Always thought they were the obvious - based in the middle of the route.
Do we know if this is commercial?

 

[Dstock7080]

Do we know if this is commercial?

Under contact from Hertfordshire CC

 

[John Webb]

84 to be operated by Sullivan Buses from 2 April 2022 on existing frequency.
Slight alteration to routing:
St Albans - Potters Bar Station then an anti clockwise loop via Mutton Lane, High Street, Hatfield Road, Church Lane & Darkes Lane.

will not be replacing the section from Barnet to Potters Bar.

Thanks for that information.

Does anyone know why the route was deviated a few years back to go via Cell Barnes Lane/Camp Road rather than the obvious route up London Road which it had done for many years? Seems to add significantly to the time taken to get into central St Albans.

 

[A0]

84 to be operated by Sullivan Buses from 2 April 2022 on existing frequency.
Slight alteration to routing:
St Albans - Potters Bar Station then an anti clockwise loop via Mutton Lane, High Street, Hatfield Road, Church Lane & Darkes Lane.

will not be replacing the section from Barnet to Potters Bar.

Any formal evidence ? Couldn't see anything on Intalink just now.

 

[Mikey C]

Understandable, but disappointing that there will be a void between Barnet and Potters Bar. Especially when Metroline buses will be bombing up and down that route to and from their garage anyway!

 

[Hophead]

Thanks for that information.

Does anyone know why the route was deviated a few years back to go via Cell Barnes Lane/Camp Road rather than the obvious route up London Road which it had done for many years? Seems to add significantly to the time taken to get into central St Albans.

More potential passengers that way and easier access to City Station, as I understand it.

 

[A0]

Thanks for that information.

Does anyone know why the route was deviated a few years back to go via Cell Barnes Lane/Camp Road rather than the obvious route up London Road which it had done for many years? Seems to add significantly to the time taken to get into central St Albans.

I would assume it was to allow them to serve the station on the way into / out of St Albans. Doing that after running through St Peter's Street would have been slow.

It also removed the need to turn around on the roundabout at the top of St Peter's Street which is fairly tight, whereas coming from the station via Hatfield Road means a nice, easy turn onto St Peter's Street and they're facing the right way to head out and then down Victoria Street. Comparing it to the 602 it takes about 5 minutes longer to get from St Peter's Street to London Colney and gives London Colney a link to St Albans City station.

 

[John Webb]

I would assume it was to allow them to serve the station on the way into / out of St Albans. Doing that after running through St Peter's Street would have been slow.

It also removed the need to turn around on the roundabout at the top of St Peter's Street which is fairly tight, whereas coming from the station via Hatfield Road means a nice, easy turn onto St Peter's Street and they're facing the right way to head out and then down Victoria Street. Comparing it to the 602 it takes about 5 minutes longer to get from St Peter's Street to London Colney and gives London Colney a link to St Albans City station.

Thanks - yes the turn from London Road into Alma Road and particularly from Alma Road to Victoria Street would not be the easiest turns, especially in the rush-hours! Certainly Camp Road into Hatfield Road is easier.

 

[duncombec]

Any formal evidence ? Couldn't see anything on Intalink just now.

Nothing formal as yet, but I saw a reference on another forum that Dean Sullivan had stated such on "his" Facebook group, also that TfL had been counting passengers between Barnet and Potters Bar. I'm presuming (especially if it's a contract) that there will be a few days before anything formal as they go through the statutory cooling off periods and the like.

 

[philjo]

There is a small note at the bottom of the routes page on the Sullivans site

We start operation of Hertfordshire route 84 on 2 April.

SULLIVAN BUSES - Routes

www.sullivanbuses.co.uk

 

[plebb11]

Confirmed on the Sullivan’s buses latest news page

SULLIVAN BUSES - News

www.sullivanbuses.co.uk

11 February - Future of route 84
From Saturday 2 April we will start operation of route 84 between St Albans and Potters Bar. This follows the existing operator's decision to discontinue the route and subsequent discussions with Hertfordshire County Council.
Certain buses will continue to serve Townsend and St Albans Girls' Schools at the northern end of the route. In Potters Bar buses will run a loop around the town serving the station, Darkes Lane, High Street and Tesco.
Click here for a map. The new timetable will be available when finalised.

 

[Mikey C]

As for the remaining section between Potters Bar and Barnet, it seems that access to Barnet General Hospital from Potters Bar is the most important issue

Councillor Chris Myers (Potters Bar Furzefield ward) said: "Whilst this is a massive win for users, the section of the route that is, arguably, the most important for residents in Potters Bar and South Mimms is yet to have its fate decided.
"The Potters Bar to Barnet section of the 84, is the only service allowing many to access NHS services at Barnet General Hospital.
"My sincerest hope is that TFL or Herts County Council step in, as a matter of urgency, to ensure the future of this section. It is unthinkable that elderly residents lose this access."

84 bus axing: 'We need to do more to save the section from Potters Bar to Barnet'

There were mixed reactions to the news that part of the 84 bus service will be revived by a new company after Metroline announced they will be…

www.whtimes.co.uk

 

[A0]

As for the remaining section between Potters Bar and Barnet, it seems that access to Barnet General Hospital from Potters Bar is the most important issue

84 bus axing: 'We need to do more to save the section from Potters Bar to Barnet'

There were mixed reactions to the news that part of the 84 bus service will be revived by a new company after Metroline announced they will be…

www.whtimes.co.uk

Which the 84 stops half a mile away from. There are, of course, 2 trains an hour between Potters Bar and New Barnet station with regular buses from the front of New Barnet station to outside the hospital.

I'm surprised Barnet Hospital is that much of an issue - I'd have thought Chase Farm is the main hospital in the area which is directly served from Potters Bar by the 313.

 

[duncombec]

Which the 84 stops half a mile away from. There are, of course, 2 trains an hour between Potters Bar and New Barnet station with regular buses from the front of New Barnet station to outside the hospital.

I'm surprised Barnet Hospital is that much of an issue - I'd have thought Chase Farm is the main hospital in the area which is directly served from Potters Bar by the 313.

Depends on the services, I think - Chase Farm has a much smaller series of services than Barnet, e.g. there is no A&E department at Chase Farm, so subsequent admissions and/or outpatients are likely to stay at Barnet.

Presumably they change in Barnet using their bus passes. What's Step-free access like at New Barnet?

 

[Mikey C]

Depends on the services, I think - Chase Farm has a much smaller series of services than Barnet, e.g. there is no A&E department at Chase Farm, so subsequent admissions and/or outpatients are likely to stay at Barnet.

Presumably they change in Barnet using their bus passes. What's Step-free access like at New Barnet?

And pensioners in Herts would have to pay to use the train between Potters and New Barnet, whereas they could use their Freedom passes on the 84

 

[Murray J]

84 - Potters Bar - St Albans

Sullivan Buses

bustimes.org

new Route 84 timetable with Sullivans, seems to be keeping the every 30 minutes frequency.

 

[chopperman21]

84 - Potters Bar - St Albans

Sullivan Buses

bustimes.org

new Route 84 timetable with Sullivans, seems to be keeping the every 30 minutes frequency.

Not sure its a complete timetable, as seems to be missing the afternoon school trips?

 

[Murray J]

Not sure its a complete timetable, as seems to be missing the afternoon school trips?

Yeah, unless they're AM only.

 

[alex397]

I tried the service out yesterday, between Barnet and Potters Bar. The service was busy, with almost every seat taken on the single deck journey from New Barnet (most people getting on in Barnet). However, the journey before it was cancelled meaning there hadn’t been a bus for an hour.

A few Oyster users used the service for local trips within Barnet, but they were just waved on. There were also quite a few elderly pass holders who were waved on too - is this to do with London passes not valid on the non-London ticket machine?
Anyway, if this is a regular occurance, than passenger data can’t be accurate. I realise passes can be manually recorded, but I’m not sure if they were.