Merseyside Transport

[CICERO55]

With the recent announcement that the liverpool city region will be getting millions for transport. Will merseyside ever have an oyster system since the PTE have never seemed to “want” to expand the metro card” system (eg with pay as you go) &Will a merseyside ever have a tram system or is that it, after the “merseytram” failed project
the other decade?

 

[8A Rail]

Merseytravel have these options, see: https://www.merseytravel.gov.uk/tickets-and-pricing/ so whether one of these fits into your thoughts I am not sure. The 'Saveaway' may be the nearest but only available after 09.30hrs. As for a traditional 'tram' system, I think they have missed the boat as such and I don't see it happening for the immediate future.

 

[Djgr]

With the recent announcement that the liverpool city region will be getting millions for transport. Will merseyside ever have an oyster system since the PTE have never seemed to “want” to expand the metro card” system (eg with pay as you go) &Will a merseyside ever have a tram system or is that it, after the “merseytram” failed project
the other decade?

I don't think that there will be an Oyster equivalent until the fragmentation and lack of control of the bus system can be addressed, as being championed by Greater Manchester.

I don't think trams are on the future agenda, which is focused (probably correctly) on the fairly extensive local rail network.

 

[urbophile]

There are now card readers (with limited function) on all Merseyrail stations as well as all buses. So there should be no technical reason why an integrated Oyster-type system couldn't work. It just needs Steve Rotheram to bang a few heads together.
As for trams, when the proposed scheme was turned down (after millions had been spent on rails etc), we were told that the money already earmarked could be used for improving Merseyrail. I wonder if Boris Johnson was working undercover for Merseytravel at that time as it seems to have gone the way of his promises.

 

[Skie]

The card readers that have been fitted at all stations do have the support for contactless payments and Oyster style carts (It's all ITSO now, Oyster itself is a very old and creaky setup). Merseytravel have in on their roadmap for a single integrated system with pay as you go fares, but the withdrawl of TfN funding for the ITSO work has thrown a bit of a spanner in the works. It will get there eventually, but might be less ambitious.

 

[Bevan Price]

With the recent announcement that the liverpool city region will be getting millions for transport. Will merseyside ever have an oyster system since the PTE have never seemed to “want” to expand the metro card” system (eg with pay as you go) &Will a merseyside ever have a tram system or is that it, after the “merseytram” failed project
the other decade?

As conceived, the merseytram idea was a waste of money. It was to have been an entirely "on street" system, which means slow journeys, regularly subject to delays caused by a plague of traffic lights -- rather like much of the Eccles route on the Manchester Metrolink system.

And as I have commented several times previously, some of their suggested extensions to the Merseyrail Electric system would be bad news for many longer-distance passengers. Without massive infrastructure expenditure, trying to put "metro" style frequencies on the CLC line, or the Huyton/ St. Helens lines would interfere with the current "fast" services over those routes. A more frequent, but slower all-stations trundle is not likely to be very popular. Why do we keep seeing posts asking for faster services between Liverpool & Chester ? (Another impracticable idea with the current infrastructure.)

 

[8A Rail]

As conceived, the merseytram idea was a waste of money. It was to have been an entirely "on street" system, which means slow journeys, regularly subject to delays caused by a plague of traffic lights -- rather like much of the Eccles route on the Manchester Metrolink system.

And as I have commented several times previously, some of their suggested extensions to the Merseyrail Electric system would be bad news for many longer-distance passengers. Without massive infrastructure expenditure, trying to put "metro" style frequencies on the CLC line, or the Huyton/ St. Helens lines would interfere with the current "fast" services over those routes. A more frequent, but slower all-stations trundle is not likely to be very popular. Why do we keep seeing posts asking for faster services between Liverpool & Chester ? (Another impracticable idea with the current infrastructure.)

Absolutely spot on. Just improve the existing Merseyrail system were possible and affordable and leave the the 'other' lines alone which in the main provide a decent service for the local people already. Yes, get to Rainford, Skelmersdale etc by all means as they are within the remit of 'Merseyrail / travel'.

 

[karlbbb]

Hopefully some of the funding will be used to pay for/sort out the guard/DOO disputes and get the 777s into action - unless there's some kind of stipulation the funding is used on "new" projects.

 

[Skie]

As conceived, the merseytram idea was a waste of money. It was to have been an entirely "on street" system, which means slow journeys, regularly subject to delays caused by a plague of traffic lights -- rather like much of the Eccles route on the Manchester Metrolink system.

Sorry but that’s complete horlicks. The core section around the city centre would have been some street running (bit still largely through pedestrianised or newly traffic calmed areas), but large stretches outside would have re-used the old tram systems segregated lines down existing central reservations with traffic lights at junctions set to give approaching trams a clear run.

There were plenty of moaners about how re-using these old tram lines would cause the loss of mature trees if you remember that far back.

 

[Gareth]

Yes, there was actually very little street running.

Whilst Merseytram had some weird details to it, such as the insistence of going to Kirkby via Tue Brook, the fundamental principle of serving the busy West Derby Rd corridor with something better than buses was a sound one.

I commuted from West Derby back in the day. It used to take about an hour, door to door; for a journey of under 4 miles.

The insistence on going to Kirkby was to ensure the involvement of Knowsley rather than it being just Liverpool. Even so, it didn't stop the other boroughs from giving it only the most lukewarm support. That was a fundamental problem with how the PTEs were set up before the role of Metro Mayor came along. It's what designed it and also what killed it.

If we did such things properly in this country, you'd run the tram along the 18 route enabling those bus services to be removed. Not serving Muirhead Avenue East and the Croxteth Park estate would've left these areas relying on the bus services which, considering they're deregulated, would been somewhat less viable by the tram abstracting its potential fares on the inner two thirds of its route.

 

[8A Rail]

Were the proposal of the Tram network went wrong, that they never choose to go to Liverpool Airport (LJL) in the first instance which was the most obvious route but those who knew better elected for Kirkby! I am convinced had they gone to LJL, then Kirkby would of followed afterwards. In other words get your foot in door first, then the rest will follow. Anyway, it don't matter now, its history!

 

[ivanhoe]

A major factor for Merseytram was to help regenerate the areas along the proposed route. South Liverpool (Speke Garston) had received millions of Euros via EU and Merseytram was to help the other City areas en route.
A tram to JLA without serving the bulk of Speke does not make sense.It would be attractive to Aigburth Road residents but I doubt that it would be full of air passengers heading to JLA JLA is a low cost airport and probably will always be one. It doesn't need a high cost transport solution whether it be Train or tram.
Anyway, it got binned by Gordon Brown and as other forum members have stated, that boat has sailed.

 

[8A Rail]

As I stated above "Anyway, it don't matter now, its history!" and I meant it!

 

[Gareth]

A major factor for Merseytram was to help regenerate the areas along the proposed route. South Liverpool (Speke Garston) had received millions of Euros via EU and Merseytram was to help the other City areas en route.
A tram to JLA without serving the bulk of Speke does not make sense.It would be attractive to Aigburth Road residents but I doubt that it would be full of air passengers heading to JLA JLA is a low cost airport and probably will always be one. It doesn't need a high cost transport solution whether it be Train or tram.
Anyway, it got binned by Gordon Brown and as other forum members have stated, that boat has sailed.

Public transport should go where there is a need and East Liverpool needs something. Both West Derby Rd and Prescot Rd are rammed for much of the day and especially during peak time.

The airport is a fairly significant operation and the need to do it down by some doesn't seem to apply to other airports around the country which are a similar size or smaller. I like the idea of a medium capacity metro that would go from the airport to South Parkway, take over the currently underused slow lines, taking in West Allerton and Mossley Hill stations, the underground through Greenbank, Picton, Edge Hill and then into town. Won't happen but it doesn't mean it shouldn't.