Merseyside: New stations planned

[Xenophon PCDGS]

As this thread refers to Burscough, may I enquire as to the £11.5 million West Lancashire District Council plan for the redevelopment of Burscough and ask if any of the aspirational rail junction works would have any detrimental causation upon them.

 

[Bletchleyite]

As the guards on Merseyrail services are non-commercial and simply operate doors etc, this might be possible if the drivers are to operate them from their own cab. But there would be a fairly sizable cost in retraining guards to drive trains.

And of course increased salaries, and the new trains (which they'll get anyway), which is why I don't propose doubling the service.

Neil

 

[Brian1947]

As this thread refers to Burscough, may I enquire as to the £11.5 million West Lancashire District Council plan for the redevelopment of Burscough and ask if any of the aspirational rail junction works would have any detrimental causation upon them.

Paul,

The WLBC website is undergoing maintenance this weekend, and unavailable until Monday. Will try to provide the answer to your question when it is back on line.

 

[martynbristow]

To me the time to increase frequencies is on stock replacement, where in my view DOO with on-train cameras should be introduced. But instead of seeing it as a cost-cutting opportunity, many of the displaced guards should be retained and retrained as drivers to increase the frequency base from 15 to 10 minutes, with 4-car units used all day (or possibly even 5). What you suggest could well be an option. Though if Maghull-Ormskirk is indeed carrying a lot of fresh air (also my observation, FWIW), an option would be that only 3tph continue past Maghull.

Neil

Yes, I fully agree with you.
This is my view of DOO in general really. All suitable staff should be redeployed to assist with passengers.
I think the introduction of a semi fast daytime service to beyond Maghull and a stopper for Maghull- Liverpool would be beneficial.

The issue of stock length has cropped up in the New Mersey-rail stock thread but I agree it should be 4 car sets.
I think people from Lancashire a put off by the higher costs and poor travel conditions. When I lived that way it was always packed uncomfortably and was ~£5 per day
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

And of course increased salaries, and the new trains (which they'll get anyway), which is why I don't propose doubling the service.

Neil

I think you can offset the increased costs against better revenues and other costs cut.
If we finally get smart ticketing potentially some of the further out booking offices could be reduced or closed. With a larger number of smaller stations it would seem logical to revise their costs. I doubt Hightown and Aughton Park take much money at all after the morning peak.

 

[Brian1947]

I think the logical solution is to extend Merseyrail from Ormskirk with the introduction of a turn back somewhere. The trains are packed until Maghull with Ormskirk not getting the same volume of use. It would seem logical to me to switch to a 2x10 minute service continuing trains through to Southport and Preston. Its quite a slow line from Liverpool-Preston via Wigan and until the 319's are able to run to Blackpool the journey time won't drop.

I think the 70 minute Liverpool to Preston journey time is more likely to reduce with the full benefits of 319 class introduction long than before any improvements are made to the Ormskirk to Preston line. The latter now appears to have slipped from CP6 to CP6/7, or could it be NIMLT?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

As this thread refers to Burscough, may I enquire as to the £11.5 million West Lancashire District Council plan for the redevelopment of Burscough and ask if any of the aspirational rail junction works would have any detrimental causation upon them.

As far as I can ascertain none of the projects outlined in Lancashire County Council's transport master plan for the area would affected by any proposed new developments in Burscough. Indeed the West Lancs Council's updated Green Belt review (2012) states the following: The Burscough Curves are currently safeguarded within the West Lancashire Replacement Local Plan in order to secure future rail reinstatement. As the review also states access to the inside of the curves is restrictive then let's hope this policy is retained.

Another contributing factor that acts as a deterrent to increasing passenger numbers on the Preston to Ormskirk line is that 4 different platforms are used for departures, split roughly 25% each. Walking the length of platform 3 just to board a single car DMU seems absurd. Many first time passengers on the line must remain just that!

 

[Bletchleyite]

I doubt Hightown and Aughton Park take much money at all after the morning peak.

Aughton Park doesn't justify anything more than an all-destinations[1] ticket machine. I have no idea why the booking office was rebuilt when it was found to be unsafe - particularly as it's outside the Merseytravel area.

Merseyrail do, of course, have two stations that have never had staff (in recent times) - Capenhurst and Bache. Probably also Little Sutton and Overpool, though I've never been to either.

[1] This can be important on Merseyrail as many longer-distance tickets are valid via Preston, Burscoughs and Liverpool - only being able to buy local tickets would remove this useful feature.

Neil

 

[Green Lane]

Probably also Little Sutton and Overpool, though I've never been to either.

That is correct, Little Sutton and Overpool are also both unstaffed.

 

[martynbristow]

Aughton Park doesn't justify anything more than an all-destinations[1] ticket machine. I have no idea why the booking office was rebuilt when it was found to be unsafe - particularly as it's outside the Merseytravel area.

Merseyrail do, of course, have two stations that have never had staff (in recent times) - Capenhurst and Bache. Probably also Little Sutton and Overpool, though I've never been to either.

[1] This can be important on Merseyrail as many longer-distance tickets are valid via Preston, Burscoughs and Liverpool - only being able to buy local tickets would remove this useful feature.

Neil

Aughton Park isn't a Mersey stations, its in West Lancashire. West Lancashire had a big involvement in Burscough Bridge and its a west lancs booking office (still I think) not a Northern.
Little Sutton and Overpool along with Bache and Capenhurst (& Chester) are within Cheshire. I can only assume its to dow with the local authority.

It would be *nice* to purchase tickets to other destinations but I'm not sold on the value of such a service. With more things becoming digital I have only used a booking office occasionally to purchase more specialist tickets. I generally book my tickets online and reserve seats, unfortunately not wishing to brag but I make less of a hash of it than the booking clerks (although just to stress this is because I know what I want and certain websites are a lot more helpful) :P

 

[UrbanWorld]

Hi all,

here is the response from the MPTE to my email concerning re-opening the outer loop line to take advantage of Everton FC's move to Walton Park....

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you for your thoughts on reopening the Cheshire Lines Loop Line between Hunts Cross and Aintree and creating a station for Everton at Blackthorne Road. The Long Term Rail Strategy has identified a number of schemes that will need further investigation over the years to come.

We did look at potential stations for the football stadia on the Bootle Branch (which is the existing freight railway between Wavertree Tech Park and Bootle Oriel Road) when both Liverpool and Everton were considering moves nearly ten years ago. Those investigations revealed that the stations could not be justified when used on such few occasions during the year albeit very heavily on each of those occasions.

The justification for reopening the Cheshire Lines Loop would be even more difficult to justify because that route is no longer an active railway line and the cost of track relaying and signalling would have to be added to the project. Furthermore, the number of people needing to get around Liverpool on the loop line is very small when compared with demand to and from the city centre, Lime Street, over to Wirral and other destinations. Time taken on the train passing around the city to the north or south can be balanced against the time by bus directly into the centre.

Again, thank you for contacting us and if we can be of any further assistance then please do not hesitate to contact us.

Yours sincerely

Lesley Howard
Engagement Assistant
Customer Feedback Team
Corporate Engagement Team

This reads like an excuse at why they have not justified a case to the Dept for Transport for the opening of the Outer Loop. The Bootle Branch line to the port of Liverpool is near a certainty to be electrified and passenger stations opened. The line runs between Walton Hall Park, the site of the proposed Everton FC stadium and the existing Liverpool FC stadium, which is being extended. A station between the two is almost certain if EFC get planning permission for the stadium. The station may a prerequisite for planning.

This creates a few problems. Firstly, the new Liverpool2 container terminal opening in late 2015 when the widening of the Panama Canal comes on line will greatly increase rail traffic out of the port. To compound matters Liverpool is increasing the port handling facilities of imported eco wooden pellets from the USA for powers station converting from dirty coal. The massive Drax station in Yorkshire will use Liverpool as will many other stations and more when conversion progresses. The energy in one train load of coal is the equivalent to at least three trains of pellets. Freight train traffic out of Liverpool than progresses along the Bootle Branch line greatly increase. This high level of traffic may be to the point that regular passenger trains are precluded.

Secondly, a station on the Bootle branch line would not exactly be adjacent to either stadium being a sizable walk. The station would need to be multi-platform to have any hope making an impact on reducing road transport, reducing pollution and congestion on large football crowds of 60,000.

Thirdly, the Bootle branch line is limited in its direct reach to most of Merseyside. The electrification of the Liverpool to Manchester line has acquired 27 year old Thameslink trains which are duel voltage (overhead wires and third rail pick up). Only Merseyrail has third rail pickup enabling these trains to be used on the Merseyrail network. This will enable trains to run north along the Bootle branch and onto Southport, and south to Lime St mainline station and down the WCML spur, via Edge Hill, to Liverpool South Parkway. The line will not access the vital city centre underground section. This can only occur by reactivating the Edge Hill spur project which uses a 1829 Stephenson tunnel from Edge to underground Liverpool Central station. Work started in the 1970s and was halted.

This then focuses on other ways of extending the network. Reusing the Outer Loop line then is a serious option. It can turn back south into Liverpool's centre at Rice Lane station in Walton rather than at Aintree. The trackbed is suitable for 4 tracks here, as it once was. An interchange station can be built at Broad Green to enable passengers from the many eastern suburbs to reach the city centre quickly. the tracked is partially built at Sainsbury's at Knotty Ash. A station here funded by Sainsbury's would solve that minor problem. The Outer loop skirts Walton Hall Park, the proposed site for EFC's new stadium, serving that large venue. The Outer loop line is too far from LFC. A matchday only station may be feasible on the Bootle branch line for LFC.

The Edge Hill Spur is essential for Liverpool's Merseyrail network enabling trains to the east of the city to access the city centre underground section and continue onwards into the Wirral. The currently unused platform at the James St underground station can be reused as a dedicated cruise liner passenger trains coming in directly from Manchester and elsewhere that accommodates electric trains. A new access elevator at the far end of the currently unused platform will take passengers directly adjacent to the cruise liner terminal, which is a great convenience to the whole of the north of England.

EFC's station is proposed at Walton Hall Park which at where Walton loco sheds are written on the map below. LFC's stadium is to the south of this point over the Bootle branch line (the black dotted line to the south).

A Merseyrail link to an airport station can be branched from Halewood station on the Liverpool to Manchester line via Warrington, across fields to access the airport from the east. Halewood station would need to be third rail electrified from Hunts Cross and brought into Merseyrail. The Outer Loop will run onto the airport from Halewood. The Edge Hill Spur, Outer Loop and airport station are essential for the city. They offer such much for so little investment.

 

[fowler9]

Urban World I like you ideas but a lot of it would actually be very difficult to do. Given that a lot of the rail network in Merseyside is already pretty much up to capacity it would require massive changes, a major infrastucture project that would certainly require more than a little investment and major disruption. I mean take Liverpool Airport, I struggle to see where the green field route from Halewood to the Airport fits in. I do wonder if the airport needs it as well. Don't get me wrong it would be massively convenient But Emirates, Qatar, Etihad, Cathay, Singapore etc. etc. aren't going to switch from Manchester to Liverpool because it gets a rail link. KLM pulled its feeder service out of Liverpool which was a shame but I don't think a train to the airport would have made a difference.

 

[UrbanWorld]

LSP is not a white elephant - yes lots of money was spend on it but people use that Station more so than the previous Allerton Station (handful of people per day) and Garston Station put together

Liverpool South Parkways was an integrated part of the Merseyrail Outer Loop where the Loop joins the London and southern Manchester line. The Outer Loop circled the city (and also split into two sub loops) running through the city centre. At two points on the loop parkway stations were to be built to prevent people from entering the city centre at Lime St to take long haul trains. The other parkway was to be a 6 platform underground station at Broad Green on the northern Manchester line.

South Parkway was over 30 years late in being constructed. The city is still waiting for the Outer Loop to be constructed after 40 years. The Broad Green parkway station will probably never be built. Although if HS2 and/or HS3 gets into Liverpool's city centre, it would make sense to build it to give access to the high-speed services from all over the city region.

 

[flypie]

One of the things that has always confused me is why a simple interchange at Broadgreen has never been considered. A Broadgreen station on the Cheshire Lines with a travellator link to the existing station would do and be faster than congested roads.
Up until closure people used the Central to Gateacre link, I'm sure they still would and so would Childwall.
And of course it doesn't have to be a train but could be part of a train tram system would would reduce costs immensely.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Aughton Park isn't a Mersey stations, its in West Lancashire.

It is, but what happens with it is largely controlled by Merseytravel.

It would be *nice* to purchase tickets to other destinations but I'm not sold on the value of such a service.

I think it has particular value on Merseyrail because if you have to buy a ticket to the chosen mainline railhead you lose flexibility. It is reasonable, practical and Permitted to travel from Merseyrail stations between (roughly) Ormskirk and Aintree to many places to the east (e.g. Manchester) via either Preston or Liverpool, or indeed the Burscoughs or Kirkby. Losing that would be a *big* loss.

With more things becoming digital I have only used a booking office occasionally to purchase more specialist tickets. I generally book my tickets online and reserve seats, unfortunately not wishing to brag but I make less of a hash of it than the booking clerks (although just to stress this is because I know what I want and certain websites are a lot more helpful) :P

You might, I near enough never do. And I definitely never would if a Merseyrail station was my local (like it used to be - Aughton Park in fact), because Merseyrail don't do ToD. I guess you do lots of splits and the likes, I usually can't be bothered, and if I do I usually do the split at a point where I change and just rebook when I get there.

And who on earth books a return from West Lancashire to Manchester in advance? Pretty sure there aren't any Advance fares, and many trains you're likely to use don't have reservations anyway.

Neil

 

[UrbanWorld]

I have read fair bit of this thread, but not all. The point that Liverpool is some sort of economic basket case came up a few times. The Liverpool City region outperforms all others in the north of England.
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/business/liverpool-city-region-local-enterprise-6994715

Because of the economic crash in 2008 which is still ongoing, the government toned down many departments located in Liverpool. This office space is being taken up by private enterprise. The increase in shipping because of the Liverpool2 extension will encourage shipping related companies back into the city for sure.
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One of the things that has always confused me is why a simple interchange at Broadgreen has never been considered. A Broadgreen station on the Cheshire Lines with a travellator link to the existing station would do and be faster than congested roads.
Up until closure people used the Central to Gateacre link, I'm sure they still would and so would Childwall.
And of course it doesn't have to be a train but could be part of a train tram system would would reduce costs immensely.

The Outer Loop could used lighter rail stock like the London Docklands trains.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think Liverpool may well get a resurgence as more and more jobs (certainly tech ones) are done remotely and you can live where you like provided you can do a periodic meeting somewhere. It might not be *desirable* (though has some very nice bits) but cheap housing could prove very attractive indeed.

Neil

 

[fowler9]

I have read fair bit of this thread, but not all. The point that Liverpool is some sort of economic basket case came up a few times. The Liverpool City region out performs all others in the north of England.
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/business/liverpool-city-region-local-enterprise-6994715

Because of the economic crash in 2008 which is still ongoing, the government toned down many departments located in Liverpool. This office space is being taken up by private enterprise.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
The Outer Loop could used lighter rail stock like the London Docklands trains.

I would agree that Liverpool isn't the basket case many make out, the company I work for recently won a contract that meant we now do loads of work that was done in the south east, just as an example. However, I think you are massively underestimating the costs involved in what you are proposing and perhaps whether they are worth paying. You can't just stick loads more trains through the underground areas of the city or the Cheshire Lines or Chat Moss routes in to the city without massive investment.

 

[UrbanWorld]

Urban World I like you ideas but a lot of it would actually be very difficult to do. Given that a lot of the rail network in Merseyside is already pretty much up to capacity it would require massive changes, a major infrastucture project that would certainly require more than a little investment and major disruption. I mean take Liverpool Airport, I struggle to see where the green field route from Halewood to the Airport fits in. I do wonder if the airport needs it as well. Don't get me wrong it would be massively convenient But Emirates, Qatar, Etihad, Cathay, Singapore etc. etc. aren't going to switch from Manchester to Liverpool because it gets a rail link. KLM pulled its feeder service out of Liverpool which was a shame but I don't think a train to the airport would have made a difference.

You need to get to know the network as it is and how it can be extended. It is not overloaded. Look at the original Merseyrail plans. Also look at the numbers using the airport and also stations can built to service Speke and Hale village. North Wales wants rail access to the airport to increase the economy of that region.

These are not my ideas. Most are plans from the original Merseyrail project.

 

[flypie]

Liverpool has always had a positive GDP contribution to the country. The places that do not a small towns and bellow, the kind of places national journos live.

 

[fowler9]

You need to get to know the network as it is and how it can be extended. It is not overloaded. Look at the original Merseyrail plans. Also look at the numbers using the airport and also stations can built to service Speke and Hale village. North Wales wants rail access to the airport to increase the economy of that region.

These are not my ideas. Most are plans from the original Merseyrail project.

I know the area very well, I have lived here in South Liverpool for most of my 40 years (4 years at Bradford Uni aside). I like your ideas I just think it is unlikely the investment required will ever be forthcoming. I don't think it is impossible, just highly unlikely. At the moment in the evening peak the Northern services in to the city along the Cheshire Lines route run late and hold up the express services behind them like clockwork, and thats only four trains per hour each way, Northern EMT and FTPE.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I know the area very well, I have lived here in South Liverpool for most of my 40 years (4 years at Bradford Uni aside). I like your ideas I just think it is unlikely the investment required will ever be forthcoming. I don't think it is impossible, just highly unlikely. At the moment in the evening peak the Northern services in to the city along the Cheshire Lines route run late and hold up the express services behind them like clockwork, and thats only four trains per hour each way, Northern EMT and FTPE.

Traditionally the main cause of that was the longer-distance trains running late and missing their slots.

Neil

 

[UrbanWorld]

I would agree that Liverpool isn't the basket case many make out, the company I work for recently won a contract that meant we now do loads of work that was done in the south east, just as an example. However, I think you are massively underestimating the costs involved in what you are proposing and perhaps whether they are worth paying. You can't just stick loads more trains through the underground areas of the city or the Cheshire Lines or Chat Moss routes in to the city without massive investment.

Any rail investment will be rather cheap as much of the infrastructure is laying there unused. Much of it should have been built 40 years ago. It is largely playing catch up. What I outlined, apart from an essential airport station and using an unused platform at James St, is what was started in the 1970s using existing infrastructure and not finished.

The Mersey rail tunnel only uses 40% of its capacity. Central station needs more platforms as it is overcrowded. Space is available as the station was built in the basement of the high-level station. The burrowing junction built to accommodate the started and halted Edge Spur tunnel project to the south of the station gives excellent throughput.

 

[flypie]

I know the area very well, I have lived here in South Liverpool for most of my 40 years (4 years at Bradford Uni aside). I like your ideas I just think it is unlikely the investment required will ever be forthcoming. I don't think it is impossible, just highly unlikely. At the moment in the evening peak the Northern services in to the city along the Cheshire Lines route run late and hold up the express services behind them like clockwork, and thats only four trains per hour each way, Northern EMT and FTPE.

Improving Liverpool Manc connectivity needs to a big part of the plans. Using the Liverpool-> Kirkby-> Wigan-> Manc as a through route as well as reinstating Liverpool->Ditton-> BankQuay-> Altrincham->Manq would help by spreading the load. Expresses via Bank Q 4 example.

There are plenty of disused lines to help expansion. http://peterirate.blogspot.com/2014/12/liverpool-doesnt-need-hs3-to-connect-to.html

 

[fowler9]

Traditionally the main cause of that was the longer-distance trains running late and missing their slots.

Neil

I assure you that at the moment the Northern services from Oxford Road are leaving overcrowded and get later and later as the journey goes on. They get to South Parkway and are put on the slow line towards Liverpool so the EMT/FTPE service behind them can pass them. I was actually on one once that got put on the slow line so an EMT and a LM service could overtake and on the run in to Lime Street the conductor said we were late because of a late running express service, yeah, we got held for the EMT service stuck behind us.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Flypie. Again like I have said before I like the ideas but you can't just draw lines on a map and say we can do this because it looks green. Take the Airport spur. My office is in the way between South Parkway and the Airport for starters. I know there is stuff in the way at the other end of it. As such presumably then the line will be underground. This isn't cheap to do.

 

[UrbanWorld]

I know the area very well, I have lived here in South Liverpool for most of my 40 years (4 years at Bradford Uni aside). I like your ideas I just think it is unlikely the investment required will ever be forthcoming. I don't think it is impossible, just highly unlikely. At the moment in the evening peak the Northern services in to the city along the Cheshire Lines route run late and hold up the express services behind them like clockwork, and thats only four trains per hour each way, Northern EMT and FTPE.

You are very negative. A hell of a lot of money has been spent in Manchester on its trams while zero has been spent on Liverpool's easily expandable rail. One thing is 99% certain is the reuses of the Bootle branch line for passengers - I know. How long this will last as freight traffic at least doubles, more like triples within the coming decade we will see. Passengers may have to be taken off the line because of the high freight levels. The line is the only rail route into the port and stopping passenger trains will be a massive hold up. Not all freight can travel at night. Freight is priority. Liverpool is the only deep water port on the west coast. Large ships have no option but to use the port. The port is accommodating the largest vessels afloat next year. The huge Maersk shipping line moved its UK offices from London to Liverpool. Maersk has a large UK operation with UK registered ships.

Liverpool needs its metro extended as a matter of urgency to cater for the expansion of trade, commerce and tourism. The city can cope with a population 4 times the size very easily and seamlessly as it was designed for a large population. Local urban rail is essential in the expansion. Excellent transport attracts companies to the city region. The urban rail is the catalyst. And I have not mentioned Liverpool Waters and Wirral Waters as to be successful they need to be on the local metro. You need to understand how cities work.

 

[flypie]

I assure you that at the moment the Northern services from Oxford Road are leaving overcrowded and get later and later as the journey goes on. They get to South Parkway and are put on the slow line towards Liverpool so the EMT/FTPE service behind them can pass them. I was actually on one once that got put on the slow line so an EMT and a LM service could overtake and on the run in to Lime Street the conductor said we were late because of a late running express service, yeah, we got held for the EMT service stuck behind us.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Flypie. Again like I have said before I like the ideas but you can't just draw lines on a map and say we can do this because it looks green. Take the Airport spur. My office is in the way between South Parkway and the Airport for starters. I know there is stuff in the way at the other end of it. As such presumably then the line will be underground. This isn't cheap to do.

The Airport spur is not my idea it is the one put forward by Merseytravel in their 30 year plan. My suggestions have always involved Train Tram. Other than that the lines are all disused. I did raise the question of the need for underground with Merseytravel and got nowt. It would be cheaper to restore the line through garston docks and avoid an under ground section.
http://peterirate.blogspot.com/2014/09/the-train-to-future.html

 

[fowler9]

You are very negative. A hell of a lot of money has been spent in Manchester on its trams while zero has been spent on Liverpool's easily expandable rail. One thing is 99% certain is the reuses of the Bootle branch line for passengers - I know. How long this will last as freight traffic at least doubles, more like triples within the coming decade we will see. Passengers may have to be taken off the line because of the high freight levels. The line is the only rail route into the port and stopping passenger trains will be a massive hold up. Not all freight can travel at night. Freight is priority. Liverpool is the only deep water port on the west coast. Large ships have no option but to use the port. The port is accommodating the largest vessels afloat next year. The huge Maersk shipping line moved its UK offices from London to Liverpool. Maersk has a large UK operation with UK registered ships.

Liverpool needs it metro extended as a matter of urgency to cater for the expansion of trade, commerce and tourism. The city can cope with a population 4 times the size very easily and seamlessly as it was designed for a large population. Local urban rail is essential in the expansion. Excellent transport attracts companies to the city region. The urban rail is the catalyst. You need to understand how cities work.

I am not being negative I am being realistic. You are talking like all we need to do is rebuild a load of old railway lines which have been partially built on, get Sainsburys to fund a railway station, dig a load of tunnels to the airport to service Easyjet and Ryanair, assuming no one will object to being shifted off their land, get the government to let us have loads more rolling stock. And then saying it won't cost much. As I have said time and time again I like your ideas, I just don't think it is likely. There aren't even any concrete plans as to what will happen to replace our current ancient rolling stock.

 

[UrbanWorld]

I am not being negative I am being realistic. You are talking like all we need to do is rebuild a load of old railway lines which have been partially built on, get Sainsburys to fund a railway station, dig a load of tunnels to the airport to service Easyjet and Ryanair, assuming no one will object to being shifted off their land, get the government to let us have loads more rolling stock. And then saying it won't cost much. As I have said time and time again I like your ideas, I just don't think it is likely. There aren't even any concrete plans as to what will happen to replace our current ancient rolling stock.

It is obvious you do not read or absorb what was written. This can be tiring for many people. Please try. One half of the track of the Outer Loop, for a about 100 yards has a supermarket access road built upon, no other part of the original Merseyrail plan is touched. No one mentioned digging tunnels to the airport. It was specifically mentioned to run the line as a branch across open fields accessing the airport from the east. The rolling stock replacement plans have been put back to assess future requirements in view of expansion (catch up of the 40 years old plan) and expansion into Liverpool Waters, Wirral Waters, etc. The cost of all this is a small fraction of what is being spent in London on rail.

 

[flypie]

Actually if you look at Merseyrails Docs it is impossible without a tunnel or deep cutting.

If you haven't looked at their 30 year plan there is a link on this page. http://peterirate.blogspot.com/2014/09/the-train-to-future.html though it turns out when I took a close look I made a slight mistake on the diagram at the Merseytravel Doc gives access from both WCML and Merseyrail from the West.
Any access to LJL from the East only would involve either it being a terminal station which would not be realistic or a very tight loop to get back to the WCML.

 

[fowler9]

It is obvious you do not read or absorb what was written. This can be tiring for many people. Please try. One half of the track of the Outer Loop, for a about 100 yards has a supermarket access road built upon, no other part of the original Merseyrail plan is touched. No one mentioned digging tunnels to the airport. It was specifically mentioned to run the line as branch across open field accessing the airport from the east. The rolling stock replacement plans have been put back to assess future requirements in view of expansion (catch up of the 40 years old plan) and expansion into Liverpool Waters, Wirral Waters, etc. The cost of all this is a small fraction of what is being spent in London on rail.

To be honest what can be tiring for many people is reading essays about what can easily be done for little investment which simply isn't true. I apologise if I attributed some things to your good self which were said by someone else. I still don't think the open fields to the east of the airport are quite the cheap and easy option you think they are. You are talking about some pretty major infrastructure projects which to the people with the money may seem to be of little benefit. I know it is a fraction of the cost of what is being spent in London.

 

[UrbanWorld]

The delay in procuring rolling stock may be a great advantage as battery/supercapacitor trains are operational in Japan and I think Siemens or Bombardier, or both, are trialling a conversion job. They use wires/3rd rail and batteries on unelectrified lines. Hitachi in Tokyo are currently operating light framed rolling stock for greater range.

If battery trains are a reality, then the Borderlands Liverpool to Wrexham line can be incorporated into Merseyrail using the Liverpool underground tunnels. The Outer Loop line can also be used with minimal outlay as can extensions to Skelmesdale, Wigan and Warrington. The Burscough curves can be incorporated into Merseyrail.