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Merseyrail (Wirral Line) & NE Wales questions

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AllWork

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10 Apr 2012
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I'm anticipating a move to North East Wales (Wrexham/Flintshire) and will likely be finding work in Liverpool. At the moment I'm sorely lacking a commutable train service but after the move would hope to shift away from the car.

I'd be very grateful for the thoughts on the following from current NE Wales residents or users of the Wirral Line (or anyone really!):



  • It seems that the idea of commuting on the borderlands line is a non-starter (1.5hrs + irregular service) but is the idea of tying this in to Merseyrail to give direct & regular trains to the centre ever likely to take off?

  • My alternative is to drive to a Wirral line station - hooton is advertised as park and ride and appears to have a huge car park is this the best choice do you think? (Starting from, say, Hope).

  • Despite being touted as Park and Ride, it seems hooton is one of the only stations to charge to park! Can anyone advise how this works (pay & display every day for 80p sounds like a pain).

  • Wrexham-Central Liverpool via hooton is about 1hr drive+train whereas continuing in the car is apparently 45mins. Can anyone advise what the traffic through the tunnel would be like at rush hour? Extra 15 mins+?

  • I've seen someone using an Oyster-style card at lime st underground but can find little online about this 'Walrus' - can anyone advise if it's likely to appear soon?

Many thanks for all your help - and any sage words from current commuters very welcome!

AW
 
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Polarbear

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I also commute to Liverpool daily so hopefully can shed some light on the points you raise.

There's been an aspiration to electrify some or all of the Wrexham - Bidston line for many years now. Unfortunately, there are many hurdles that will have to be overcome before anything happens - not least the cost of it. It may happen, but don't hold your breath.:roll:

Hooton has indeed got a large car park. It's currently 80p per day & you pay the person on the gate each day (I'm not aware that there is any sort of car park season ticket). Other car parks (free) are available at Eastham Rake, Bromborough & Spital on that line, though these are all smaller & can get full on weekdays after 08:00. The Wirral line service is pretty good these days but trains can be pretty full, especially in the evening peak when there are very few 6 car diagrams out.

Driving through the tunnel is busier between 07:45 and 08:45. Your main issue may be the cost of car parking in Liverpool which can be expensive anywhere near the city centre if you have to pay yourself. Generally, the tunnels flow well & there are rarely hold ups. You may wish to consider a "Fast Tag" if using the tunnels on a regular basis http://www.merseytravel.gov.uk/Tickets/compare-tickets/Pages/Tunnel---Fast-Tag.aspx
 

AllWork

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Many thanks Polarbear

Driving through the tunnel is busier between 07:45 and 08:45. Your main issue may be the cost of car parking in Liverpool which can be expensive anywhere near the city centre if you have to pay yourself. Generally, the tunnels flow well & there are rarely hold ups. You may wish to consider a "Fast Tag" if using the tunnels on a regular basis http://www.merseytravel.gov.uk/Tickets/compare-tickets/Pages/Tunnel---Fast-Tag.aspx

A good point. The train just pips driving & parking looking at things but for 1/2hr saved a day it's a tough choice!
 

156441

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Having recently looked for parking in Liverpool I can add my 2ps worth by adding the cheapest I can find a days car parking is £6. So hope that helps with you workings out.
 

Green Lane

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I've worked full time in Liverpool for the last 18 years. My options are limited to public transport as I don't drive. I only live three stops from the tunnel on the Birkenhead side, so it's only a a relatively short journey, nevertheless the time taken getting into Liverpool can vary depending on time of day. Although I live a lot nearer, perhaps some of my comments might still be relevant.

I almost always get the bus to and from work, as there's a stop right at the bottom of the street, less than a minute walk away. When I first started my current job, I used to get in to work for 9am and leave at five 5pm. I know now though that for users of the Birkenhead road tunnel, these are the worst possible times for congestion, plus I always almost had to stand up on the packed bus in both directions.

Thankfully, a flexi-time system was introduced at work just a few years after I started, and I now go out at 07:15 in the morning, signing in to work at around 07:40 every morning, so it only takes me 25 minutes door-to-door now as opposed to typically 45 minutes if trying to get in for 9am - so a saving of around 20 minutes, just by working earlier times.

I can now leave work at either around 4pm or 6pm (If I want to make a bit of time up), I could leave at 5pm but I almost always choose to avoid this, as some of the buses on my routes tend to get packed. It always takes me ten minutes longer going home than it does going to work as all buses call into the Birkenhead bus station on the way home (but not for me on the way to work). I don't want to exaggerate though, as outside of the 9am/5pm peaks (i.e. an hour either way), tunnel traffic can be pretty light. So that's ideal for me on the bus.

Another hazard of the road tunnels is that occasionally (typically once per month), a vehicle will break down in the tunnel at rush hour. This can result in long delays, as traffic will be reduced from two lanes to one until the vehicle is towed out. This can sometime result in buses being diverted via the Wallasey tunnel. Even emergency vehicle escorts can cause delays for ordinary road users, as buses and cars are often held back near the tunnel entrance for several minutes until the emergency vehicle goes through. If I know in advance of any tunnel issues (by checking local travel news), I will instead get the train to/from work. My ticket is an annual B1/C1 zones Trio, costing £756 per year, or exactly £63 per month. (Not quite as cheap as the bus operators' own tickets, but I prefer to have the rail option as a backup - plus I use it all the time at weekends for saving money on leisure trips by "ticket splitting" via Liverpool South Parkway/Huyton/Fazakerly etc..)

Going the other way from Birkenhead and outside the Merstravel PTE area, I have done a lot of weekend hiking around the Flintshire and Wrexham areas, having done walks from every single stop on the Borderlands line (including Hope) at one time or another. Whilst the Borderlands Line is great for casual weekend leisure trips and I do have personal affinity for the line, I would in no way like to depend on it for commuting to work every weekday.

Typically the Borderland Line trains run between five and fifteen minutes late (not so bad in the mornings, but tend to suffer a cumulative delay throughout the day), but the line does seem prone to disruption. Trips for me have been affected by a lorry striking a bridge, track adhesion problems, trains being turned around at Shotton to make up time and other unknown delays. Typical stuff for any railway line. Although cancelled trains on the Merseyrail lines are one thing, but a cancelled train on the Borderlands Line is much more serious as there is only one train an hour.

I was once looking into applying for a job in Wrexham, nothing came of it in the end. Although the Bidston-Wrexham Line might well have worked out the quickest on days when the service is running fine, I feel I would have had to have a "Plan B" of train to Chester followed by Chester-Wrexham bus or train. Most, if not all of the areas from Shotton to Wrexham served by the Borderlands line also have direct buses into Chester, from somewhere within walking distance.

I too would love to see the Bidston-Wrexham line electrified and integrated into the Merseyrail system. Previous plans have come to nothing. I understand the third-rail plans were abandoned due to prohibitive costs. Is OHLE and dual stock more likely in future? Maybe, but one thing we can be pretty sure of is the service will remain DMU operated at least over the next few years.
 
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merlodlliw

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IF your residence is in Hope,and don't want to rely on the Wrexham line to Bidston etc, your drive to Hooton is probably best,but lots of early morning traffic when you hit the A55 to Queensferry & Welsh Corner.

Chester station car parking is expensive,plus too much traffic in the morning to get there.

Liverpool direct suffers huge car park fees,but you have to fight traffic to get to the M53.

It all hinges on whether you are paying,or someone else is,The Wrexham/Bidston line upgrade etc, is being taken seriously by WG latest think tank,but its all geared on Broughton industrial estates.

If it snows, then Hope station is a good stand by.
 

AllWork

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Many thanks all. Especially to Green Lane for the detail. My heart said rail and that sounds best (at least at the start) and via Hooton.

Merlodlliw, interesting that you suggest driving via Queensferry - I'd just assumed 483-55 and the long way round Chester would be fastest!

On the Electrification question. I've worked with WG in a variety of guises (all non-transport though) and personally imagine yellow trains taking over the borderlands line would be a hard pill to swallow in Cardiff. Some sort of ATW service to shotton/Merseyrail onwards maybe.
 

Green Lane

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Many thanks all. Especially to Green Lane for the detail. My heart said rail and that sounds best (at least at the start) and via Hooton.

Merlodlliw, interesting that you suggest driving via Queensferry - I'd just assumed 483-55 and the long way round Chester would be fastest!

On the Electrification question. I've worked with WG in a variety of guises (all non-transport though) and personally imagine yellow trains taking over the borderlands line would be a hard pill to swallow in Cardiff. Some sort of ATW service to shotton/Merseyrail onwards maybe.

Thanks for the reply. Indeed, from a Wirral perspective, even extension of electrification from Bidston to Shotton with some Ellesmere Port-like half-hourly service and perhaps a new Park and Ride at J3 of the M53 (Woodchurch Interchange) would be a very welcome start. These things would certainly improve access between Merseyside and the Deeside Industrial Park, and also from parts of Wirral to the North Wales Coast Line and vice/versa.
Assuming there is enough capacity for such new Merseyrail services to run around the Liverpool loop then stations between Wrexham and Shotton would still be one change away from Liverpool - so no obvious disadvantage to the bulk of passengers even if only the northern half of the line was electrified initially. As for plans and/or improvements for the southern half of the line, I'm not really clued-up enough to suggest what might be the best way forward although as suggested this is a matter for the Welsh Government. If both halves can be eventually done under two separate schemes under two separate authorities, then great. I guess it all depends if the demand justifies the expenditure. (Also, apologies for veering off-topic :) ).
 
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yorkie

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I certainly wouldn't count on the Wrexham line being electrified any time soon!

As for Walrus, there is an old thread here, but the "full roll out" has been delayed, it was previously reported that it would be "early 2014", but since then it's gone very quiet so I suspect the date is slipping even further. Smart card systems are very problematical to implement and I believe their complexity has been underestimated by many people.

Also sorry but can I briefly 'plug' our Liverpool meal? It will take place on an evening in April or May, and may be of interest to anyone who works, or lives, in the Liverpool area. If interested simply add your name to the Doodle. Could be a good opportunity for people to share their thoughts and experiences on a wide range of topics, including commuting into Liverpool for those of you who do (or are about to)!
 
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