Merseyrail Standard Fare - help

[NKelly]

Hi All,

I am completely new to this so apologies in advance if I have missed anything. My son has been issued with a Penalty Fare Notice whilst returning home from college today. The ticket was issued because he did not have his Trio pass when asked for his ticket. He had left it at home. I purchased his Trio ticket at the start of the month from a Merseytravel centre, the person who issued the ticket advised me to take a screenshot of it and send it to my son so that if there is ever a problem, he will have proof that he has a valid ticket. This seemed great advice at the time and I did just that. Today, when being issued the ticket, my son shown the screenshot to the ‘officer’ but nothing was said and they continued to issue the ticket.
My son doesn’t have a job, he has just started at college and we have tried to budget for his travel by buying this pass, now he has been issued this notice that seems a little too excessive for what has happened. I guess I’m struggling to see how the punishment fits the crime.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated, if he has to pay the fine (or myself on his behalf) will I be able to pay monthly.

The details of the train journey are as follows
Birkenhead Park to Hamilton Square
Ticket held is the Trio pass that covers for the college term and expires December 2024 costing £133.85
this ticket was purchased in person at a Merseytravel centre at the start of this September
My son told the person issuing the ticket that he has a screenshot of the ticket on his phone
but the ticket was still issued
Is there no discretion with this genuine accident

 

[1dohg]

When asked to do so by an authorised collector (in this case the RPO who issued this penalty fare), you must be able to present a valid ticket for inspection. A screenshot is not sufficient - the staff at the Merseytravel centre have given incorrect advice. A physical ticket must be presented upon request by an authorised person. Penalty Fares are not payable monthly - however if paid within 21 days (starting the day after the Penalty Fare was issued) the penalty is reduced to £50 plus the cost of a single ticket for the intended journey.

 

[Wolfie]

There is normally some discretion shown in cases of forgotten season tickets. Particularly when you are following staff advice. However Merseyrail are notoriously bad for attempting dubious prosecutions.

Out of curiosity how old is your son? Is he still a minor?

 

[John R]

The National Rail Conditions of Travel (which Merseyrail is part of ) may be helpful here. It says:-

38. Season Ticket or Photocard Unavailable for Inspection

38.1 If you are unable to present a Season Ticket, or any photocard required with a Season Ticket, when asked by the staff or authorised agents of a Train Company, you will be treated as having joined a train without a valid Ticket and Condition 9 will apply.

38.2 If you possess a valid Season Ticket and/or photocard but were unable to present it when requested because you had forgotten to carry it on that particular journey or mislaid it, the Train Company concerned may at their discretion refund any fare or Penalty Fare paid in accordance with Condition 9, less an administration charge not exceeding £10.

38.3 In order to claim such a refund, you will need to provide the retailer from whom you bought your Season Ticket with your Season Ticket (and photocard if applicable), together with the additional Tickets you have purchased or any Penalty Fares notices.

Your son clearly has a season ticket, as it is described as so on the penalty fare notice.

Now this wording says, "at its discretion", but unless your son has regularly forgotten to take it, I'm not sure why discretion would not be granted.

I would therefore appeal (which stops the clock in terms of the time period to pay the fine and get the discount), on the basis that the NRCoT envisages exactly this situation, and the discretion to waive the penalty fare.

Link to NRCoT here:

https://assets.nationalrail.co.uk/e8xgegruud3g/77fuBWp62YPSrGwBP1mNQX/5f912e6484a2dc7efbad3b4ed0c9b383/National_Rail_Conditions_of_Travel_2024.pdf

 

[gray1404]

Appeal the penalty fare on the basis given above plus the following.

The penalty fare has been issued not in accordance with the regulations. The fare between Birkenhead Park and Birkenhead Hamilton Square is not £4.80 so the notice is incorrect.

The fare is £2.50 for an adult and £1.25 for a child. The notice has been issued to a child.

Depending on their date of birth this could be another basis for the notice being incorrect.

Also the grounds should be that the passenger was unable to produce their ticket. Not that they had left it at home.

 

[Wolfie]

Appeal the penalty fare on the basis given above plus the following.

The penalty fare has been issued not in accordance with the regulations. The fare between Birkenhead Park and Birkenhead Hamilton Square is not £4.80 so the notice is incorrect.

The fare is £2.50 for an adult and £1.25 for a child. The notice has been issued to a child.

Depending on their date of birth this could be another basis for the notice being incorrect.

If the passenger is a minor, particularly one who has a ST albeit that it was forgotten, the chances of a successful prosecution tend towards zero.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Is it worth thinking about Merseyrail’s mindset for this one? We’re at the start of the academic year, and there are plenty of children and young people using trains for the first time. The railway will be keen to give a firm message that it’s important to own and carry a valid ticket.

In this position, I can see why Merseyrail have acted in the way they have. That doesn’t mean that the OP shouldn’t appeal, and it remains important to use all the sensible grounds given above. But you should also emphasise that a season ticket IS held, and that your son now understands the importance of carrying it when they travel. Essentially you want to give the message that you are on the same side as the railway, and the penalty fare is not needed to make sure that your son doesn’t get it wrong again.

 

[RPI]

I'm not familiar with the particular ticket involved here, but if it is classed as a season ticket then an appeal should be made on the basis of a forgotten season ticket, you are generally allowed two opportunities a year to forget your season ticket in these circumstances so an appeal should be successful.

Just to add, the notice has been issued as a fail to carry season ticket, so as above, producing the season ticket at a later date (within the 21 days) should suffice.

 

[gray1404]

I'm not familiar with the particular ticket involved here, but if it is classed as a season ticket then an appeal should be made on the basis of a forgotten season ticket, you are generally allowed two opportunities a year to forget your season ticket in these circumstances so an appeal should be successful.

Just to add, the notice has been issued as a fail to carry season ticket, so as above, producing the season ticket at a later date (within the 21 days) should suffice.

So the type of ticket is a Trio (bus, train and Mersey Ferry) ticket. So it's a Merseytravel PTE ticket that is valid on trains. This is why I suggest appealing on the above additional grounds in addition in case the appeal body take the view it isn't a railway season ticket in the traditional sense.

Interestingly within the last week someone forgot a Merseytravel issued pass (this case a concessionary travel pass) and the penalty fare was issued on the basis of no ticket being held instead.

 

[Haywain]

So the type of ticket is a Trio (bus, train and Mersey Ferry) ticket. So it's a PTE ticket that is valid on trains.

If that's a ticket that allows unlimited travel on trains for a preset period, then it is essentially a season ticket.

 

[gray1404]

If that's a ticket that allows unlimited travel on trains for a preset period, then it is essentially a season ticket.

I personally agree with you. The likes of Northern (who also operate in Merseyside) say otherwise so we don't know what stance the appeal body will take.

 

[John R]

The penalty fare notice issued actually says it's a season ticket, so I don't see how the appeal response could argue that it isn't.

 

[AlterEgo]

The penalty fare notice issued actually says it's a season ticket, so I don't see how the appeal response could argue that it isn't.

Good spot as usual.

 

[LYradial]

Penalty Fares

Before travel, you must buy your ticket from a ticket office, ticket vending machine or online.

www.merseyrail.org

you can appeal purely “if you think a penalty fare is unfair” it’s under frequently asked questions.

another point to add to the appeal

 

[NKelly]

Thank you to you all for your help and advice on this one, it is very much appreciated. I will let you all know what happens on appealing the fare.

kind regards