Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Originally there was no staircase access to the platforms at all - it was a lift (which involved going down a passageway outside the building) or escalators. In the mid to late 1980s one escalator was converted to a fixed staircase, leaving only an up escalator on that side.
They did indeed recently reverse the escalators on the other side.
comments deleted whilst I try to work out what really happened. There were certainly no escaltors in L.Central until the rebuild and I am wondering whether the photo of the 503/504 with Kirkby on the front is actually a fake as I think the single-track tunnels require end evacuation.
comments deleted whilst I try to work out what really happened. There were certainly no escaltors in L.Central until the rebuild and I am wondering whether the photo of the 503/504 with Kirkby on the front is actually a fake as I think the single-track tunnels require end evacuation.
It isn't; classic units definitely operated on the Loop and Link in the early days and there are plenty of photos of them doing so, including some at Moorfields. Safety standards then were not what they are now.
My comments re escalators refer to post-1979 - the Northern Line platforms were originally escalator and lift only, with one staircase (visible in the later photo) converted back from an escalator later. I have no experience of the system prior to that as I wasn't born! I do however have unusually photographic "point memories" as young as age 2[1] so can comment on what things were like quite early on!
[1] Of things my parents can confirm happened, so it isn't me making things up.
It isn't; classic units definitely operated on the Loop and Link in the early days and there are plenty of photos of them doing so, including some at Moorfields. Safety standards then were not what they are now.
Yes, Wirral 503s worked the loop, but they all had end doors by then. Can't be sure about the Northern line units although I thought they were modified for the new link tunnels, but could be wrong.
Yes, Wirral 503s worked the loop, but they all had end doors by then. Can't be sure about the Northern line units although I thought they were modified for the new link tunnels, but could be wrong.
No, they weren't. There is plenty of evidence of them operating without end doors on the Link, including in print in the days when Photoshop didn't exist! The Story of Merseyrail book (published 1979) has one I believe, might even be the same one.
More evidence btw - it can't have jumped over the top
The Wirral units all had through communication doors cut in them before the Loop opened, losing a few seats in the process. Never heard of them being used though. The Southport units did not, presumably because although there are sections of single line bore it's not nearly as extensive as on the loop.
I also wonder if the original plan was to keep the Wirral units for longer. The Southport ones were pretty jaded and dilapidated by that time, and the new units replaced them first. The Wirral units were in much better condition (right to their last day), and there seems to have been a change of plan that the units originally delivered to London Waterloo services were transferred after just a couple of years to Merseyside.
Wirral units did operate on the Link, principally to Kirkby, but Southport units never ran on the Loop (they did run, out of service via the connecting line, to James Street and onwards, as they started to appear at Birkenhead North depot).
Pretty sure that is some form of ventilation shaft for the Wirral line. Have been at central with no Northern line services about but still been able to hear trains when near that end of the platform. Back when 3 car trains used to stop nearer to the signals.
Regarding train evacuation; all 503 units had end doors before the Loop opening in May 1977. Evacuation was by means of a ladder from the end doors onto the track. This was the only way, as there was no room in the Loop tunnels for evacuation to be made through the doors.
It was a most time consuming procedure as staff had to assist passengers to come down the ladder backwards. When one considers that many pax were reluctant to attempt this procedure, such as, ladies in high heels, others carrying luggage, the elderly, or those fearful of the procedure who had to be helped by staff moving the evacuees feet down rung by rung, you can see why evacuation was only attempted if a long delay was expected. Add in the time taken for the pax to walk to the next station, and it was likely to take over an hour. Often the problems could be dealt with in under this time.
The 503's had very large batteries which would keep the emergency lights on for this time. (unlike the 507/508's batteries which had a much shorter life, as the battery protection switch would operate and leave everyone in darkness unexpectably). The only good point was that the driver could make an emergency isolation and speak to the Electric Control at Hall Road very quickly via the Tunnel Emergency Communication system. (TEC) The driver also had instant contact with the signalman at James St Power Box. Isolation bars still had to be applied, often by the station supervisors.
I recall a train being evacuated due to a 'one under', a pax in a wheelchair could not be moved and others declined evacuation and elected to wait until the train could be platformed. This system could not have coped well with a train on fire; it seem likely that only the young and fit would have survived. Fortunately this never happened.
End door evacuation on the Northern line was not required, as the single line tunnels have metal walkways which are just wide enough for a wheelchair. All that had to happen was for the guard to open the doors on the correct side and direct pax which way to go. I recall a train leaving L Central for Hunts Cross stopping a little distance into the tunnel because of a smoking power car and pax being directed by the guard to walk back to L Central through the smoke. I also recall being at L.Cent when on another occasion a train from Hunts x failed just short of Platform 2. This time evacuation had to take place by using a number of ladders placed up to the doors. The train was packed and evacuation took over an hour.
Regarding The building of L Central. Records describe it as being done by cut and cover. My memory of the 'pilot bore' is that I found it to be circular and smooth throughout its length.
This seems to indicate that it was done after the excavation was completed.
No, they weren't. There is plenty of evidence of them operating without end doors on the Link, including in print in the days when Photoshop didn't exist! The Story of Merseyrail book (published 1979) has one I believe, might even be the same one.
More evidence btw - it can't have jumped over the top
With The Story of Merseyrail. to hand, there is a photo of two sets without end doors at Sandhills and a photo of coach M29143M with and end door at Kirkby.
I seem to recall sets were modified to put end doors in. They may not have all all had them by the time the loop and link opened.
ps. I love the picture of Paradise Junctionin that publication.
I can't find any photos of a doorless 503 - are there any about?
I recall a train being evacuated due to a 'one under', a pax in a wheelchair could not be moved and others declined evacuation and elected to wait until the train could be platformed. This system could not have coped well with a train on fire; it seem likely that only the young and fit would have survived. Fortunately this never happened.
Still a potential issue with the 50x I think? And LUL? I guess, though, that the likelihood of a serious fire on a modern EMU (yes, I know) is minimal.
End door evacuation on the Northern line was not required, as the single line tunnels have metal walkways which are just wide enough for a wheelchair. All that had to happen was for the guard to open the doors on the correct side and direct pax which way to go.
Ah, that makes more sense. I wonder why the Loop was not built that way?
Regarding The building of L Central. Records describe it as being done by cut and cover. My memory of the 'pilot bore' is that I found it to be circular and smooth throughout its length.
This seems to indicate that it was done after the excavation was completed.
Firstly, the end doors were installed in the 503s in the early 1970s (it was certainly happening in 1971/2).
The Northern (502) stock all had roof ventilators on the driving power cars and were wider thus could not work on the tunnel sections of the Wirral. I admit that I was wrong about the new Northern tunnels which I incorrectly thought needed end evacuation. The photo further up this page showing Kirkby is indeed a 502 driving trailer hence the lack of ventilators.
End door evacuation on the Northern line was not required, as the single line tunnels have metal walkways which are just wide enough for a wheelchair. All that had to happen was for the guard to open the doors on the correct side and direct pax which way to go. I recall a train leaving L Central for Hunts Cross stopping a little distance into the tunnel because of a smoking power car and pax being directed by the guard to walk back to L Central through the smoke. I also recall being at L.Cent when on another occasion a train from Hunts x failed just short of Platform 2. This time evacuation had to take place by using a number of ladders placed up to the doors. The train was packed and evacuation took over an hour.
What means of evacuation would now be employed on the Northen line tunnels as the driver training video shows that not only were there several bags on the walkway but also at the ends of the tunnel and at Moorfields platforms either the walkway is not continuous or there are no steps down. Note: I am not now questioning whether the 502s operated over the link..
I suspect that the trains on the Link had never operated in tunnels before and it was just seen as an appropriate measure in a modern tunnel. For the same reason the Jubilee Line extension in London has walkways in its tubes.
The Loop line trains would always have to operate through the existing river tunnel and through Birkenhead without any walkway provision, so there was little justification for two approaches dependent on where in the tunnel you were, and they came up with an alternative method.
I was at a further talk on Monday of the Tramway & Light Railway Society, Merseyside Branch "Liverpool Loop and Link" at which the speaker mentioned that plans are being prepared to add one and maybe two additional platforms at Liverpool Central, using the short access stub referred to in the previous thread. Don't know the source of his info, but he was the BR project manager for the Link and Loop lines.
After many years of hunting (I think I've been intrigued about this since my teens!) I have finally found a video with some decent views of the third portal at the Moorfields end. They can be seen on this video at around 10:52:
This seems to confirm that it is sadly only a stub, roughly the width of the Ranelagh St "viaduct", about the same as the right hand portal, so only about 10m long, and doesn't hide anything interesting like an extra platform or trackbed. It is full of junk and at the end just has rock and concrete. Anecdotally from Facebook discussion on the MerseyRailways 2.0 group (but nothing, er, concrete, to quote) it seems that concrete doesn't hide anything exciting but was just infill from when it was dug out a bit during the 1970s rebuild.
However, I do still hear rumours of a narrow header tunnel used for ventilation that is the other side of that rock, accessible somehow from the Hunts X end, which I'd love to see inside but I suspect only single figures of people have ever been there! So to an extent the intrigue continues, but it's still a "big find" for something I've wanted to see for something like 30 odd years!
To complete the "random tunnels around Central" story you can find a photo of the other header tunnel on SkyscraperCity here:
Just thought I'd see if anybody thinks about this subject as much as I do and if anyone had ideas as to what they'd like to see under this name. I think the best place for it's London terminus will be St Pancras but how I wonder. Can see two options possible: 1) an annex on the west side of...
www.skyscrapercity.com
This is at the other end of Central near the reversing siding and was built in the 1970s as a precursor to connecting to the Wapping Tunnels to connect the City Line to the Northern Line. The two images above are photos, one distant, one inside, this stub. I don't know who the photographer is to acknowledge them, but they come from the above-linked thread. This one too is only tens of metres long, with rock at the end.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
Also of interest to this thread is this plan of the original Mersey Railway station I got from the Public Records Office at Kew while my Dad was looking up family tree stuff many years ago. I've also got a zoomed in version showing the booking office and bridge area more clearly. The booking office area is said to remain in existence under the Lyceum but unrecognisable as such.
(Attached photos are architect's drawings of the original Mersey Railway design)
After many years of hunting (I think I've been intrigued about this since my teens!) I have finally found a video with some decent views of the third portal at the Moorfields end. They can be seen on this video at around 10:52:
This seems to confirm that it is sadly only a stub, roughly the width of the Ranelagh St "viaduct", about the same as the right hand portal, so only about 10m long, and doesn't hide anything interesting like an extra platform or trackbed. It is full of junk and at the end just has rock and concrete. Anecdotally from Facebook discussion on the MerseyRailways 2.0 group (but nothing, er, concrete, to quote) it seems that concrete doesn't hide anything exciting but was just infill from when it was dug out a bit during the 1970s rebuild.
However, I do still hear rumours of a narrow header tunnel used for ventilation that is the other side of that rock, accessible somehow from the Hunts X end, which I'd love to see inside but I suspect only single figures of people have ever been there! So to an extent the intrigue continues, but it's still a "big find" for something I've wanted to see for something like 30 odd years!
To complete the "random tunnels around Central" story you can find a photo of the other header tunnel on SkyscraperCity here:
Just thought I'd see if anybody thinks about this subject as much as I do and if anyone had ideas as to what they'd like to see under this name. I think the best place for it's London terminus will be St Pancras but how I wonder. Can see two options possible: 1) an annex on the west side of...
www.skyscrapercity.com
This is at the other end of Central near the reversing siding and was built in the 1970s as a precursor to connecting to the Wapping Tunnels to connect the City Line to the Northern Line. The two images above are photos, one distant, one inside, this stub. I don't know who the photographer is to acknowledge them, but they come from the above-linked thread. This one too is only tens of metres long, with rock at the end.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
Also of interest to this thread is this plan of the original Mersey Railway station I got from the Public Records Office at Kew while my Dad was looking up family tree stuff many years ago. I've also got a zoomed in version showing the booking office and bridge area more clearly. The booking office area is said to remain in existence under the Lyceum but unrecognisable as such.
(Attached photos are architect's drawings of the original Mersey Railway design)
Here are some photos from the abandoned Prohibition bar, in the basement of the Lyceum (behind the Chinese Restaurant), taken in 2015.
This is the circular room marked 'booking hall' on the original plan.
The booking hall under the Lyceum was not functioning when I was a child in the 1960s and I recall it was completely cleared out to form an open space some time before the link / loop work started and the station closed. When I was taken on trips tickets were always obtained from the booking office at the top of the stairs leading down to the island platform.
Perhaps Tim Dunn could be persuaded to do a "Secrets of Merseyrail" programme - probably not enough for a series - but a one off might enable the curious to see those bits out of view.
I do wish someone would write a detailed history of the Mersey Railway.
Yes there was the old slimline Oakwood book from the early 70s and the Countyvise Line "Beneath the Liners" in the late 80s - but the Mersey Railway as opposed to Merseyrail in general is crying out for a detailed and definitive history.
Some detail available here on the Liverpool City Council mapping site, confirming what has already been discussed. The pecked / dashed lines show the extent of the underground spaces.
Images show a set of screenshots, west to east from the Mersey to beyond Central station:
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
A thread here on 28DaysLater includes an extract from an unnamed publication, showing the situation prior to the extension of the Mersey Railway through to Central Station, indicating the two headings at James Street and the proposed to link to the docks line.
We are aware of an issue with emails from the Forum to Microsoft-based email accounts (hotmail/outlook/live.com email addresses). This is being looked into currently, thanks for your patience meanwhile.
www.skyscrapercity.com
www.liverpoolecho.co.uk
