Merseyrail Guard on Trial (Report now out)

[RichmondCommu]

To be honest I think this is a bit of a personal topic for you as if I remember you had a thread about an incident your daughter got involved in. There are definitely two sides to this coin but I don't think you're looking at it in a balanced way. Many points can be equally valid, as at the end of the day many factors caused the incident.

Hang a minute, our daughter was the victim of a sexual assault which in no way was the fault of the either the TOC or its staff. In fact they did all they could to help. The purpose of that thread was to try and suggest a way in which further attacks could be prevented.

 

[asylumxl]

Hang a minute, our daughter was the victim of a sexual assault which in no way was the fault of the either the TOC or its staff. In fact they did all they could to help. The purpose of that thread was to try and suggest a way in which further attacks could be prevented.

But do you not empathise with the parents of the woman being a parent and having a young daughter yourself?

 

[RichmondCommu]

So what if she had been clear but on the platform when the guard gave 2 and then she lent up on the train between 2 on the bell and the train moving? She would still have been killed but the guard wouldn't be responsible. Therefore it is indisputable that the guard didn't cause it, he was the last link in the chain of events which lead to this.

Let's concentrate on what actually happened here shall we?

Give up on this anti rail staff crusade you seem to have. You honestly can't say the guard is entirely responsible for this and that the girl isn't to blame can you?!

What crusade? Unlike some I have not taken sides here however I am disppointed with the way that some posters have sought to tarnish the memory of a young girl on her way home.

There are no winners here but there are certainly a lot of lessons to be learnt.

 

[A-driver]

That is not correct, changes have been made to the rule book in respect of train dispatch, particularly for guards.

I don't count that. No helpful changes have been made. Dispatch still remains possibly the most dangerous part of railway operation, at least from a driver/guard point if view. The methods and equipment are still as poor as before.

 

[RichmondCommu]

But do you not empathise with the parents of the woman being a parent and having a young daughter yourself?

Yes of course I do but surely there isn't a single poster on here that doesn't feel a sense of sorrow at what has happened to that poor girl and her family?

 

[asylumxl]

I am disppointed with the way that some posters have sought to tarnish the memory of a young girl on her way home.

Had it been a middle aged man on the same mix of alcohol and illegal substances would you have the same opinion?

The use of the word "girl" by the media was nothing more than an attempt to make her seem more innocent. She was of consenting age and considered an adult by the legal system. She obviously felt she was adult enough to make the decision to be in a state of inebriation so I'd certainly define her as an adult.

Yes of course I do but surely there isn't a single poster on here that doesn't feel a sense of sorrow at what has happened to that poor girl and her family?

I feel some sorrow but I also think it is about time people in this country started taking responsibility for their actions. Railway stations are not safe and not play grounds.

 

[A-driver]

Let's concentrate on what actually happened here shall we?



.

I'm concentrating on your claim that the guard was responsible, and you seem to be hinting that he was solely responsible which is not the case.

As I say, he was no more than the final link in a chain of events leading to this incident.

 

[khib70]

Let's concentrate on what actually happened here shall we?



What crusade? Unlike some I have not taken sides here however I am disppointed with the way that some posters have sought to tarnish the memory of a young girl on her way home.

There are no winners here but there are certainly a lot of lessons to be learnt.

You're wasting your time, I suspect, but I totally agree with you. The facts are that the girl, for whatever reasons, was leaning on the train. The Guard was completely aware of this but still gave the start signal. He was totally responsible and has been found to be so in two courts of law.

A few (by no means all) rail industry staff on here will defend the staff member regardless of the circumstances. They're the same ones who pile in to blame the passengers for other less tragic failings of the railway. The girl was in a state which made the guard's duty of care greater, not less. She may have been committing a number of minor criminal offences, but none of them as far as I know carry the death penalty. Knowingly starting a train with someone leaning on it is a different matter.

It's amazing how people manage to be brutally judgemental about the victim of this tragedy, but suspend all judgement when it comes to a "colleague".

And I acknowledge the many rail staff who have contributed to this thread in a balanced, compassionate and realistic manner.

I also feel for the guard, by the way. He made a mistake which will haunt him for a very long time, and I hope he can eventually come to terms with it.

 

[bb21]

The Guard was completely aware of this but still gave the start signal. He was totally responsible and has been found to be so in two courts of law.

Totally?

I suggest you read the discussions in the previous thread and I think you will find that no one said that the guard was totally responsible. There are a lot of contributory factors involved. The guard paid the price by being locked up, and the girl paid the ultimate price of her life.

As RichmondCommu and a few others have said, there are no winners here but there are certainly a lot of lessons to be learnt, by both railway staff and the general travelling public.

The thread ends here as we are starting to go over old grounds.