Merseyrail Express

[trainophile]

Just boarded a late running Merseyrail Northern Line service which is only stopping, after Sandhills, at Waterloo, Formby & Southport. This is a new one on me, but if it avoids total cancellation it has to be an improvement.

 

[krus_aragon]

Just boarded a late running Merseyrail Northern Line service which is only stopping, after Sandhills, at Waterloo, Formby & Southport. This is a new one on me, but if it avoids total cancellation it has to be an improvement.

Such behaviour is something I've seen on the Valley Lines around Cardiff: there aren't any non-stop services scheduled between Cardiff and Barry, for example, but they will run non-stop to try to get back on schedule if they have to.

 

[vjm1975]

Seems unusual to run in passenger service. Merseyrail normally terminate trains short and run ECS to pick up the timetabled run further down the line.

 

[Deerfold]

Seems unusual to run in passenger service. Merseyrail normally terminate trains short and run ECS to pick up the timetabled run further down the line.

That seems rather unfair on passengers who have managed to board already!

 

[Soyyo]

There was one a couple of weeks ago on Merseyrail from Liverpool Central stopping at Chester only.

 

[Shimbleshanks]

Just boarded a late running Merseyrail Northern Line service which is only stopping, after Sandhills, at Waterloo, Formby & Southport. This is a new one on me, but if it avoids total cancellation it has to be an improvement.

Didn't that line used to have scheduled 'express' services in the morning and evening peak that missed out a few stops? I remember reading about it in a railway mag in the 1970s.

About three years ago, I caught a late running Liverpool Lime Street to Euston Pendolino when trains were being disrupted by a lineside fire. We ran non-stop from Lime Street to Euston to make up lost time, not even stopping at Runcorn (apart from a signal stop in the Ditton area.) The driver came on the PA as we approached Euston saying that we'd done the run in a record 1hr 56mins for the route. Almost worth waiting 90 minutes for...

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Didn't that line used to have scheduled 'express' services in the morning and evening peak that missed out a few stops? I remember reading about it in a railway mag in the 1970s.

About three years ago, I caught a late running Liverpool Lime Street to Euston Pendolino when trains were being disrupted by a lineside fire. We ran non-stop from Lime Street to Euston to make up lost time, not even stopping at Runcorn (apart from a signal stop in the Ditton area.) The driver came on the PA as we approached Euston saying that we'd done the run in a record 1hr 56mins for the route. Almost worth waiting 90 minutes for...

Yes, I believe there was, they also ran limited stop northbound at the end of the day. Can't recall the stops mind!

Regarding your Liverpool-Euston run, can drivers use the PA on Pendolinos? I thought they could see it if it was in use but always called for the guard if needed. In hundreds of VT journeys over tens of thousands of miles I've never heard a driver use them.

 

[Dunc108]

Just boarded a late running Merseyrail Northern Line service which is only stopping, after Sandhills, at Waterloo, Formby & Southport. This is a new one on me, but if it avoids total cancellation it has to be an improvement.

Believe it or not, when services ran from Liverpool Exchange - Southport, at least one daily EMU ran called the "Southport Express" running limited stop between Exchange & Southport. No idea when it started or even when it last ran, or if it was some kind of experiment? It would have had to have ran sometime in peak hours if it wanted to attract business passengers.

 

[Bevan Price]

When there were 4 tracks between Liverpool & Bootle, there were several peak hour semi-fasts on the Liverpool - Southport line, some of which overtook all-stations services.

For example, from a 1953 timetable, the 08:30 from Southport was non-stop from Freshfield to Liverpool, taking 32 minutes from Southport to Liverpool, and overtaking the 08:25 all-stations service.

Trainophile was lucky to be allowed on his train. Last time I was in a late train, they turfed off all the passengers at Formby and sent it ecs to Liverpool, leaving passengers to wait for the next train.

 

[headshot119]

When there were 4 tracks between Liverpool & Bootle, there were several peak hour semi-fasts on the Liverpool - Southport line, some of which overtook all-stations services.

For example, from a 1953 timetable, the 08:30 from Southport was non-stop from Freshfield to Liverpool, taking 32 minutes from Southport to Liverpool, and overtaking the 08:25 all-stations service.

Trainophile was lucky to be allowed on his train. Last time I was in a late train, they turfed off all the passengers at Formby and sent it ecs to Liverpool, leaving passengers to wait for the next train.

Last time I was on a late running service ex Chester we got turfed off at Hooton, the train resumed service at Green Lane which happened to be where I wanted to alight at

 

[anthony263]

Such behaviour is something I've seen on the Valley Lines around Cardiff: there aren't any non-stop services scheduled between Cardiff and Barry, for example, but they will run non-stop to try to get back on schedule if they have to.

I have experienced this on the Valley lines network. I have had non stop runs from Cardiff Central to Penarth with the train doing the journey in 8 minutes compared to the normal 12 minutes.

I have even see a late running limited stop Treherbert service

 

[Dunc108]

When there were 4 tracks between Liverpool & Bootle, there were several peak hour semi-fasts on the Liverpool - Southport line, some of which overtook all-stations services.

For example, from a 1953 timetable, the 08:30 from Southport was non-stop from Freshfield to Liverpool, taking 32 minutes from Southport to Liverpool, and overtaking the 08:25 all-stations service.

Trainophile was lucky to be allowed on his train. Last time I was in a late train, they turfed off all the passengers at Formby and sent it ecs to Liverpool, leaving passengers to wait for the next train.

It makes me wonder if such extras would be possible these days (probably not) especially with capacity at a premium between Sandhills & Liverpool Central, together with the loss of the 4-track sections.

 

[mister-sparky]

Southeastern skip stops sometimes to make up time when they're running really late

 

[tsr]

Southern services in all areas of their operations will skip stops. A few particular services do it with astonishing regularity.

The silly thing is that due to congestion or later trains running in front as booked, this practice rarely makes up more than a handful of minutes, but the accumulated saving of delay minutes must be worth it... somehow.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

Usually when the timetable goes out of the window, Northern also do the skip stop stunt. The last service that did that was a service to Man Vic via Brighouse that was running really late. From Leeds it ran straight to Brighouse then resumed its normal service pattern, saved somewhere in the region of 10 minutes. The poor sods who wanted stations in between were told to change at Brighouse and catch the train back.

 

[Anvil1984]

Usually when the timetable goes out of the window, Northern also do the skip stop stunt. The last service that did that was a service to Man Vic via Brighouse that was running really late. From Leeds it ran straight to Brighouse then resumed its normal service pattern, saved somewhere in the region of 10 minutes. The poor sods who wanted stations in between were told to change at Brighouse and catch the train back.

All train companies do it at some point can't just say x,y and z do it and its often as part of a contingency plan. If the Man Vic via Brighouse service is just 10 mins late just imagine what it could do to the TPE services stuck behind as I don't think it can be looped until Mirfield (IIRC the Dewsbury through line is one way only). It counts as a PPM failure so the TOCS won't do it unless necessary, if the service is running that late then the passengers at Leeds could change at Brighouse or catch the xx43 Huddersfield service (admittedly anyone going from Dewsbury to Rochdale would have trouble). If its running 15 mins or so late at Rochdale its usually terminated in the bay anyway

 

[reb0118]

Yes, I can confirm that this can happen across all routes & TOCs. (Some more likely than others though).

I remember, due to a late incoming service, running non stop between two principal stations and because I log my times at the passing places too (from the WTT) I noticed that we very soon caught up with our booked times, and that after passing our original booked stop we were in fact early! On this occasion I did in fact have passengers on board wishing to alight at certain intermediate stops (the headphones brigade! ) but by the time I managed to contact control to rescind the "not to call" order it was too late as we had by then passed the last booked intermediate stop.

 

[Shimbleshanks]

Yes, I believe there was, they also ran limited stop northbound at the end of the day. Can't recall the stops mind!

Regarding your Liverpool-Euston run, can drivers use the PA on Pendolinos? I thought they could see it if it was in use but always called for the guard if needed. In hundreds of VT journeys over tens of thousands of miles I've never heard a driver use them.

Hard to remember at this distance in time - it could have been the guard but I have this idea in my head that it was the driver.

 

[Bevan Price]

It makes me wonder if such extras would be possible these days (probably not) especially with capacity at a premium between Sandhills & Liverpool Central, together with the loss of the 4-track sections.

Not the Southport line, but they have sometimes run Liverpool Central - Aintree shuttles on Grand National day,

 

[voyagerdude220]

Usually when the timetable goes out of the window, Northern also do the skip stop stunt. The last service that did that was a service to Man Vic via Brighouse that was running really late. From Leeds it ran straight to Brighouse then resumed its normal service pattern, saved somewhere in the region of 10 minutes. The poor sods who wanted stations in between were told to change at Brighouse and catch the train back.

I was once on the 07:07 Clitheroe to Manchester Vic, which got delayed at Whalley due to a Train Fault. There was some sort of coupling issue between the 153+142 combo. I seem to remember it starting its journey 5-10 minutes late at Clitheroe, but by the time it got to Blackburn, it was 30 minutes late, by which time it was running in the path of (and delaying) the 07:40 ex Clitheroe.

It was decided to run non stop from Blackburn, to Manchester Victoria.

Before I had boarded the train, I had seen on Northern Rail's website that they were planning on doing this, but I hadn't had chance to ask the Conductor, as he was busy selling tickets etc.

It became apparent that the Conductor wasn't aware of the planned non-stopping, as he only knew of the intention, when the station staff at Blackburn specifically advised on the PA, that passengers must not board, unless wishing to travel to Manchester. The Conductor therefore made a PA on the train, so people for intermediate stations could leave, and walked through the train.

I had originally intended to get the 07:40, but when I realised about the 07:07 ex Clitheroe being delayed, I knew it would have a knock on effect on the 07:40, which it did. I also saw how overcrowded the stations platforms at Darwen and Bromley Cross were. No doubt people there would've been surprised that the train didn't stop, despite the driver sounding the horn to warn them.

The service usually forms the 08:29 Man Vic to Blackburn/09:31 Blackburn to Man Vic, but presumably went to Newton Heath for the problem to be looked at in more detail etc.

 

[vjm1975]

Merseyrail running late trains as express services seems to be the norm now, as opposed to the age old practice of turfing passengers off short of destination then running ECS to make up time. There used to be nothing worse than a stupidly late 6 car from Chester turfing off its passengers at Hooton and having them cram in to the 3 car from Ellesmere Port following a few minutes later.

The Chester line, with the tight turn around times at Chester leaving little scope to catch up any delay of more than 5 minutes has seen a few of these express services recently.

Last night (23/11), the 19:00 running 6 minutes late ran as express from Hooton I believe. Not sure where it resumed normal stopping pattern.

The 21:00 also ran express from Hooton, after leaving Chester almost 10 minutes late. The information given by the guard on this service was that next stop after Hooton would be Moorfields. Thought it would of made up time by Rock Ferry or Birkenhead Central.

Of the 20 or so passengers on the train, a few had to alight at Hooton and wait for the following train for intermediate stations, about 1/2 dozen were changing anyway for E.Port, and the remaining dozen or so on the train got a nice express service to Liverpool